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Al's experiment is real

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Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:04 pm PostPost subject:
diffident
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Hello Bano,

I click on youtube and get the message "The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Hmm.

Glad you could hear it from your window.

Cheers,

Diffident
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Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:50 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Hi Diffident,

I wouldn't say I am gainfully employed just yet - I have a new client and we have a project I am working on, but I have a long way to go before I'm out of the red for certain.

All I can say is that CLaNZeR goes well above and beyond anything I could ever aspire to with regards to workmanship and vision and his generosity in making this rig available to me was overwhelming. I think he and Madprof are cut from the same cloth - two persons on this planet that I have high respect and a debt of gratitude for to be sure. My only hope is that I can put these things to test in a way that measures up to the value of the gifts.

Yes, that video was the one I was referring to, the same test that OC replicated.

Regarding Electricity, I did a bit of an analysis on it over at Energetic regarding "What is electrical current" (I hope I'm remembering the thread title correctly), and can summarize that thread with the simple phrase: Electrical Current is the motion of charges relative to a reference.

This means that it can be electrons or protons or ions or whatever you like as long as they carry an electric charge. Neutrons in motion will not produce a current per se, but because they have a magnetic field associated with their spin, it is conceivable that in some medium they could induce current in that medium as they move through it. The same can be said of any magnetic field in motion including radio waves and light. But of course those would have special cases of phase due to the fact that they are oscillatory and have both electrical charges depending on when you look at them - and their magnetic potential also flips polarity in time.

I also think there are other energy types not associated with electricity and magnetism which can interact with our material world. Two examples of this would be what we call "Life Force" and "Active Force (aka Holy Spirit)" Every living thing, be it plant animal or human and probably even the angels, have "Life Force" in their cells and makeup. Without this energy, the entity dies and leaves a lifeless corpse. Active Force is a topic beyond the scope of these posts, but let it be known it is the most powerful force in existence and was instrumental in transforming this planet from a desolate waste covered in water to the living planet we have today - not to mention it's involvement in all of creation.

Cheers,

Harvey


Last edited by Harvey on Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:51 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Bano,

Good to hear from you - thanks for the heads up on the band at the beach Mr. Green
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Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:30 pm PostPost subject:
bano
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Harvey wrote:
Bano,

Good to hear from you - thanks for the heads up on the band at the beach Mr. Green



Up my wrong words are "not expensive) thetikets was solid, hard expensive sori for the mistake. About ">>> not ...in ...Your Country." thisi full posible Here we too receive similar text.
What You think about this
http://inhabitat.com/new-shock-wave-engines-have-the-potential-triple-fuel-efficiency-in-hybrid-vehicles/ This is not free energy but is interest
Cheers and best regards
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Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:36 pm PostPost subject:
bano
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bano wrote:
Harvey wrote:
Bano,

Good to hear from you - thanks for the heads up on the band at the beach Mr. Green



Up my wrong words are "not expensive) thetikets was solid, hard expensive sori for the mistake. About ">>> not ...in ...Your Country." thisi full posible Here we too receive similar text.
What You think about this
http://inhabitat.com/new-shock-wave-engines-have-the-potential-triple-fuel-efficiency-in-hybrid-vehicles/ This is not free energy but is interest
Cheers and best regards



Moby and others on Spirit in BG may be here (above right on the page)
http://www.vesti.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=4045091
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_o1_jBUSM&feature=channel_page

 PINK FLOYD FOREVER
: from Bulgaria
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Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:00 pm PostPost subject:
diffident
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Hello Harvey,

Thanks for the erudite explanation of electricity. Your words " radio waves and light. But of course those would have special cases of phase due to the fact that they are oscillatory and have both electrical charges depending on when you look at them" sounds like you're introducing a quantum factor into your explanation.

I was listening to Stephen Hawking (a TV program) a few nights ago. I think that he was saying that there is no need for a creator. He's harking back to the notion of the beginning universe as a black hole (the Big Bang theory), as I understand him. I read "A Brief History of Time" maybe 20 years ago, then read his follow-up book, but he's now got a different viewpoint (not that I particularly understand it).

I think he's saying that the law of gravitation itself is all that was required to set the universe into existence. I'm sure you have a highly detailed comprehension of all this. Would that equate to the "Active Force"?

I agree that this topic doesn't belong here, but after all, is there anyone still working on Al's device? Perhaps Bano? Frank? I don't hear much about it. Just let me say that I'm in full wonder every day about the persistence of life on this planet; life found in places that we used to think were uninhabitable, such as hot crevices in the deepest part of oceans and elsewhere. One good thing about TV is the reminder you get by watching such channels as "Animal Planet," "History," and "Discovery"you get to actually see some of the strange diversity. Hawking believes that man is going to destroy himself (or be destroyed by, perhaps, an asteroid), which is the reason he gave for taking that airplane ride in which he was weightless for a few minutes. He said he wanted to point out, or emphasize, that if we don't go into space, humankind will become extinct.

Maybe so, but I have the feeling, if something like that happens, life will still exist on the planet, and a hundred thousand or a hundred million years from now some other life form, rooted in present life, will evolve into a dominant species. Life is everywhere (everybody knows by now that ugly little beasties can live in the roots of your eyelashes, to say nothing of blind shrimp living in the oceans' hot-jet black smokers).

Perhaps spirit is best known as life.

The work will come.

Cheers,

Diffident
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Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:51 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Until mainstream science understands that our material universe is in constant transition between material and energy at speeds beyond detection, it is doubtful they will ever get a handle on the "when" associated with quantum research - they will always continue to be baffled by the "observation factor" that seems to change things.

Looking at the cycles of a photon is like looking at a subatomic particle in extremely slow motion. It doesn't take any more logic than a six year old could apply. For example, the photon has a magnetic potential and an electrical potential which both peak simultaneously - if part of the energy of the photon is contained in those fields, where does the energy go when both fields are at zero potential? - both fields must pass through zero at the same time. Likewise, when a subatomic particle has zero mass (which is happening rapidly and constantly within its cycle) where does the energy go that was represented by that mass? In both cases the energy must be present with the entity but in a form we presently do not detect.

I heard a story once of a scientist who finally reached a level of understanding that he felt he could do anything God could do and therefore presented his skills for comparison. God asked him, "So you say that you can now create life?" The scientist responded affirmatively; "Just like you, I can make a man from dust." So God asked him to demonstrate it. As the man reached down and grabbed a handful of dust, God slapped it out of his hand and said "No, no - you have to create your own dust".

Even Stephen Hawking acknowledges that the energy to create the universe must have existed before it was converted to material. All energy and thus all matter came out of God himself because he is the source of it.

My experience tells me that the farther things 'evolve' from their source the more diluted they become. Eventually, all species breed out to a hybrid at the end of the possibilities within their kind. Bacteria sure does have a lot of possibilities programmed into their kind, but bacteria is still bacteria and virus is still virus, never to they mutate from one to the other. Like wise equestrians remain equestrians, bovine remain bovine and canine remain canine etc. We may get a mule from the horse and the donkey, but the mule is still within the equestrian kind. They follow the laws that the creator set.

Gravity is just one of the laws he set, and we are not even close yet in fully understanding it governing principles at the root level. Energy does not have gravity, therefore even though the law exists prior to an big bang, it cannot be the responsible factor for converting that energy to matter. Gravity is the subsequent result from matter displacing space and time.

God's Active Force is a non-personal force that behaves as with intelligence and is always in harmony with God's will. It is the force which allowed Peter to walk on water just as Jesus was doing, and evidently is dependent upon the individual using it to have no doubts with regards to its function. It is also sensitive to the emotional state of mankind and "pleads for us with words unspoken", a paraphrase of a scripture I have read. Since this universe was created after the angels (they applauded during its creation according to scripture), God's Active Force must have existed before and outside of this universe. Consequently, any time the energy represented by those entities enters this universe, the energy total of the universe increases and the inverse would be true also. Therefore, the energy of the universe is not constant.

According to prophecy, God will "cut short the days, otherwise no flesh would be saved" meaning that if man were left to continue indefinitely without his intervention we would kill ourselves off, and this is with or without space travel - either way we will destroy ourselves. So he has purposed to step in prior to that happening and "bring to ruin those ruining the earth" as one scripture puts it.

So how does this post relate to the topic at hand? Since all energy comes from God, and Al's device was powered by some form of energy, it can be said that his device was powered by God. Mr. Green He doesn't read here anymore, I don't think, even though he could do so as a guest - but I think he would enjoy that line.


Best Regards,

Harvey
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Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:05 pm PostPost subject:
diffident
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Hello Harvey,

Wow!
That epistle is a hard act to follow. Reference Alsetalokin (he and OC were the moderators, right?), I'm sure he would like that line. But if I'm not mistaken, you are the one who figured out that he could have gotten the effect shown in his video by using a hidden battery and motor. God's work, indeed!

It is interesting that he strayed from OC's original design and came up with the GW/AGW effect. I keep wondering whether that could be useful some way.

You say "the universe must have existed before it was converted to material. All energy and thus all matter came out of God himself because he is the source of it." I'm wondering whether rather than God being the source of it, that the energy itself is God.

On the subject of evolving species, it's easy to see how a species evolves within its own kind; I haven't yet connected with how different species derive from the same source.

More later; gotta get back to work for now. I fully appreciate your insights, finding them stimulative and invigorating.

Cheers,

Diffident
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:20 am PostPost subject:
bano
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Harvey wrote:
.

I heard a story once of a scientist who finally reached a level of understanding that he felt he could do anything God could do and therefore presented his skills for comparison. God asked him, "So you say that you can now create life?" The scientist responded affirmatively; "Just like you, I can make a man from dust." So God asked him to demonstrate it. As the man reached down and grabbed a handful of dust, God slapped it out of his hand and said "No, no - you have to create your own dust".



Best Regards,

Harvey


Avesome Talles Wow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI42hQHfbi8
_________________
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 PINK FLOYD FOREVER
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:50 am PostPost subject:
bano
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bano wrote:
Harvey wrote:
.

I heard a story once of a scientist who finally reached a level of understanding that he felt he could do anything God could do and therefore presented his skills for comparison. God asked him, "So you say that you can now create life?" The scientist responded affirmatively; "Just like you, I can make a man from dust." So God asked him to demonstrate it. As the man reached down and grabbed a handful of dust, God slapped it out of his hand and said "No, no - you have to create your own dust".



Best Regards,

Harvey


Some ineterest who known
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbLQATOjZhE



Avesome Talles Wow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI42hQHfbi8

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_o1_jBUSM&feature=channel_page

 PINK FLOYD FOREVER
: from Bulgaria
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:18 am PostPost subject:
bano
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bano wrote:
bano wrote:
Harvey wrote:
.

I heard a story once of a scientist who finally reached a level of understanding that he felt he could do anything God could do and therefore presented his skills for comparison. God asked him, "So you say that you can now create life?" The scientist responded affirmatively; "Just like you, I can make a man from dust." So God asked him to demonstrate it. As the man reached down and grabbed a handful of dust, God slapped it out of his hand and said "No, no - you have to create your own dust".



and russian desizion:
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/vladimir_pantiuhov/
Best Regards,

Harvey


Some ineterest who known
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbLQATOjZhE




Avesome Talles Wow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI42hQHfbi8

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_o1_jBUSM&feature=channel_page

 PINK FLOYD FOREVER
: from Bulgaria
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Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:58 am PostPost subject:
bano
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bano wrote:
bano wrote:
bano wrote:
Harvey wrote:
.

I heard a story once of a scientist who finally reached a level of understanding that he felt he could do anything God could do and therefore presented his skills for comparison. God asked him, "So you say that you can now create life?" The scientist responded affirmatively; "Just like you, I can make a man from dust." So God asked him to demonstrate it. As the man reached down and grabbed a handful of dust, God slapped it out of his hand and said "No, no - you have to create your own dust".



and russian desizion:
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/vladimir_pantiuhov/
Best Regards,

Harvey


Some ineterest who known
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbLQATOjZhE




Avesome Talles Wow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI42hQHfbi8




April 2011 full text and video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxMp8fw7j0

РЕЗЮМЕ:
Целта на тази демонстрация е да бъдат показани възможностите на този Модул при приложението му в електромобилите.
Най-важното е, че приложението му не е обвързано с конструктивни промени в електромобила. Този Модул се поставя на мястото на някоя от акумулаторните батерии или пък на някое специално определено за него място. Конструктивни промени в електромобила не се налагат. Той е съвместим с всяко едно превозно средство, използващо електрическа енергия за двигателите.
Другото е това, че използвайки този Модул, изминатото разстояние от електромобила се увеличава два, три или повече пъти, в зависимост от материалите, използвани в Модула.
Нека да видим в нашия случай какво бихме получили. На изхода на Модула ще получим постоянно напрежение 12.5 до 13.5VDC постоянно напрежение. Като товар имаме три лампи 12V/50W, свързани последователно. Или в случая товарът ще е около 30W. В същото време ще измерим и токът протичащ от акумулаторните батерии посредством пробник, работещ в честотен диапазон от нула до 100 KHz. Ще измерим и ефективното напрежение, което се подава към Модула и така ще определим мощността на входа на Модула. Ще измерим и определим и мощността на изхода на Модула. Ще установим една доста чувствителна разлика между двете, като отношение между мощността на изхода и тази на входа. На двата дигитални мултимера ще бъдат показани значенията на токовете на входа и изхода.
Включваме системата. Генераторът на управляващи импулси подава импулси с продължителност 760 мкск и честота на повторение 33Hz.
Отбелязваме ефективното значение на тока на входа, което е 2.5A.
100 миливолта в показанията отговарят на 1A.
Ефективното напрежение на входа, отчетено от осцилоскопа е 2.15V.
Това са ефективните значения на тока и напрежението, посредством които ние осъществяваме управлението на процесите, протичащи в Модула.
На втория мултиметър отчитаме ток на изхода 2.3A, а напрежението отчетено на осцилоскопа е 13.7VDC.
Като пресметнем мощностите, получаваме мощност на входа 5.37W, а мощност на изхода 31.5W.
Виждате каква огромна разлика имаме на мощността на изхода в сравнение с тази на входа. В дадения случай отношението е 5.87!
Или мощността, употребена за управление на процесите в модула е приблизително шест пъти по-малко от това, което получаваме на изхода!
Обърнете внимание, че енергията от батерията се използва за управление на процеса, който протича в Модула. Енергията, която получаваме на изхода е резултат от използването на друг, външен източник на енергия, а не на енергията от батерията!
И така, в нашия случай, ако приемем, че елктромобил с тези батерии би изминал 150 километра, то използвайки Модула, ние бихме увеличили пробега му поне четири пъти той би изминал минимум 600 километра с едно зареждане на батериите.
Искам да отбележа, че работата на този Модул се базира на методът Интегрирано комутиране на магнитни потоци ИНКОМП, който е предмет на мой патент от 2006 година, а самият Модул е патентован през 2009 година.
Важна особеност на Модула е, че той може да бъде поставен на всякакво превозно средство, независимо от средата, в която се използва във вода, под вода, на суша, във въздуха, в космоса... В самият Модул няма никакви електронни елементи. Електронни елементи има само в генератора на управляващи импулси и в токоизправителя, ако е необходимо да има.
Движещи се механизми няма, което го прави устойчив на износване.
_________________
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 PINK FLOYD FOREVER
: from Bulgaria
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Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:15 am PostPost subject:
bano
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bano wrote:
bano wrote:
bano wrote:
bano wrote:
Harvey wrote:
.

I heard a story once of a scientist who finally reached a level of understanding that he felt he could do anything God could do and therefore presented his skills for comparison. God asked him, "So you say that you can now create life?" The scientist responded affirmatively; "Just like you, I can make a man from dust." So God asked him to demonstrate it. As the man reached down and grabbed a handful of dust, God slapped it out of his hand and said "No, no - you have to create your own dust".



and russian desizion:
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/vladimir_pantiuhov/
Best Regards,

Harvey


Some ineterest who known
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbLQATOjZhE




Avesome Talles Wow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI42hQHfbi8




April 2011 full text and video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxMp8fw7j0

РЕЗЮМЕ:
Целта на тази демонстрация е да бъдат показани възможностите на този Модул при приложението му в електромобилите.
Най-важното е, че приложението му не е обвързано с конструктивни промени в електромобила. Този Модул се поставя на мястото на някоя от акумулаторните батерии или пък на някое специално определено за него място. Конструктивни промени в електромобила не се налагат. Той е съвместим с всяко едно превозно средство, използващо електрическа енергия за двигателите.
Другото е това, че използвайки този Модул, изминатото разстояние от електромобила се увеличава два, три или повече пъти, в зависимост от материалите, използвани в Модула.
Нека да видим в нашия случай какво бихме получили. На изхода на Модула ще получим постоянно напрежение 12.5 до 13.5VDC постоянно напрежение. Като товар имаме три лампи 12V/50W, свързани последователно. Или в случая товарът ще е около 30W. В същото време ще измерим и токът протичащ от акумулаторните батерии посредством пробник, работещ в честотен диапазон от нула до 100 KHz. Ще измерим и ефективното напрежение, което се подава към Модула и така ще определим мощността на входа на Модула. Ще измерим и определим и мощността на изхода на Модула. Ще установим една доста чувствителна разлика между двете, като отношение между мощността на изхода и тази на входа. На двата дигитални мултимера ще бъдат показани значенията на токовете на входа и изхода.
Включваме системата. Генераторът на управляващи импулси подава импулси с продължителност 760 мкск и честота на повторение 33Hz.
Отбелязваме ефективното значение на тока на входа, което е 2.5A.
100 миливолта в показанията отговарят на 1A.
Ефективното напрежение на входа, отчетено от осцилоскопа е 2.15V.
Това са ефективните значения на тока и напрежението, посредством които ние осъществяваме управлението на процесите, протичащи в Модула.
На втория мултиметър отчитаме ток на изхода 2.3A, а напрежението отчетено на осцилоскопа е 13.7VDC.
Като пресметнем мощностите, получаваме мощност на входа 5.37W, а мощност на изхода 31.5W.
Виждате каква огромна разлика имаме на мощността на изхода в сравнение с тази на входа. В дадения случай отношението е 5.87!
Или мощността, употребена за управление на процесите в модула е приблизително шест пъти по-малко от това, което получаваме на изхода!
Обърнете внимание, че енергията от батерията се използва за управление на процеса, който протича в Модула. Енергията, която получаваме на изхода е резултат от използването на друг, външен източник на енергия, а не на енергията от батерията!
И така, в нашия случай, ако приемем, че елктромобил с тези батерии би изминал 150 километра, то използвайки Модула, ние бихме увеличили пробега му поне четири пъти той би изминал минимум 600 километра с едно зареждане на батериите.
Искам да отбележа, че работата на този Модул се базира на методът Интегрирано комутиране на магнитни потоци ИНКОМП, който е предмет на мой патент от 2006 година, а самият Модул е патентован през 2009 година.
Важна особеност на Модула е, че той може да бъде поставен на всякакво превозно средство, независимо от средата, в която се използва във вода, под вода, на суша, във въздуха, в космоса... В самият Модул няма никакви електронни елементи. Електронни елементи има само в генератора на управляващи импулси и в токоизправителя, ако е необходимо да има.
Движещи се механизми няма, което го прави устойчив на износване.

Качено от Waleri1021 на 07.04.2011

SUMMARY:
The purpose of this demonstration is to show the capabilities of this module in its application in electric vehicles.
Most importantly, its application is not tied to structural changes in electric vehicles. This module is put in place one of batteries or any specially designated place for it. Structural changes in the electric does not require. It is compatible with any vehicle using the power of engines.
Another is that using this module, the distance from the electric vehicles increases two, three or more times, depending on materials used in the module.
Let us see in our case what we received. The output of the module will receive a 12.5 to 13.5VDC. As we have three lamps 12V/50W connected in series. Or in the case load will be about 30W. At the same time and measure current flowing from the battery through the test lead working in the frequency range from zero to 100 KHz. We measure the effective voltage that is fed into the module and thus determine the power inlet module. Will measure and determine and output power module. You'll find quite a sensitive difference between the two, the relationship between power output and that of the entrance. Both digital multimeter will be shown the values of the currents at the entrance and exit.
Turn on the system. The generator of control pulses the pulse duration 760 mks and repetition rate 33Hz.
We note the importance of effective input current, which is 2.5A.
100 mV readings to meet at 1A.
Effective voltage input, read from the oscilloscope is 2.15V.
These are effective values of voltage and current through which we carry out the management of processes in the module.
On the second digital multimeter output current of 2.3A and voltage read on the oscilloscope is 13.7 VDC.
As calculate capacity receive input power 5.37W, and output power of 31.5W.
You see what a huge difference we output power compared to the entrance. In this case the ratio is 5.87!
Or power, used to manage processes in the module is approximately six times less than what the output!
Note that battery power is used to manage the process which occurs in the module. Energy that the output resulting from the use of other external source of power rather than battery power!
So, in our case, assuming elktromobil these batteries have traveled 150 km, then use the module, we increased his mileage at least four times - he would have traveled at least 600 km on a single battery charge.
I note that the work of this module is based on the method "Integrated switching of magnetic flows" ( INKOMP), which is the subject of my patent of 2006, and the module itself was patented in 2009.
An important feature of the module is that it can be placed on any vehicle, regardless of the environment in which it is used - in water, underwater, on land, air, space ... In the module itself has no electronic components. Electronic components only in the generator of control pulses in the rectifier, if there is a need.
No moving mechanisms, making it resistant to wear
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:33 pm PostPost subject:
diffident
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Hello Harvey,

Long time no hear.

You wrote this:

Well it looks like I can't see the Plasmerg run without signing an NDA but that could happen in a couple of weeks - hopefully.

Did you get to see the Plasmerg run?

Cheers,


Dif
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Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:35 am PostPost subject:
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Hi Diffident,

Manufacturing delays has pushed the demo date back. It should be noted that the demo is intended for shareholders of which I am not a member. It was hoped that I could proxy for some shareholders that could not attend personally. It may be more likely at this stage that the public will see their first demo after some licensed manufacturer provides product to the public - when ever that may be. Rolling Eyes

At this point it looks like "Hurry up and wait" Razz

P.S. Don't be shy about contacting them directly via email - I was pleasantly surprised to discover they replied to my wife's questions speedily and directly.
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Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:14 pm PostPost subject:
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Hello Harvey,

Thanks for responding. Hope your circumstances have improved. Sounds like there may be something to this Plasmerg if they are in the process of manufacturing. If you do get the chance to witness it running, please let me know. And thanks for the tip about contacting them directly, but as you've no doubt realize, "diffident" means shy! I'll have to work up to it.

What's your take on Bano's recent contribution?

Cheers,

Diffident
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:42 pm PostPost subject:
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Unfortunately, the video does not show the phase angle relationship between the current and voltage. We only get to see the averages.

Let us say that the rms current was 2A and the rms voltage was 15V but the phase angle was 90. The equation would be as follows:

Power = Vrms * Irms * cos(90) = 0W real power!

Now lets say the phase angle was 45

15rms * 2rms * cos(45) = 21.21 W

Now lets say the phase angle was 0 (like for a pure resistor)

15rms * 2rms * cos(0) = 30 W

so you can see, just by changing the phase angle (which all inductors and capacitors do) we can vary the real power from zero to full even though we get the same rms readings on the voltage and current!

It is this relationship that sends many off on the wrong path thinking they have something that they don't.

I could be wrong about his tests, but without that crucial bit of info - its just a nice video and nothing more.

Cool
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Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:12 pm PostPost subject:
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Hmmm.

Maybe Bano will read your response and offer the complete data!

Dif
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Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:37 pm PostPost subject:
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Harvey wrote:
Unfortunately, the video does not show the phase angle relationship between the current and voltage. We only get to see the averages.

Let us say that the rms current was 2A and the rms voltage was 15V but the phase angle was 90. The equation would be as follows:

Power = Vrms * Irms * cos(90) = 0W real power!

Now lets say the phase angle was 45

15rms * 2rms * cos(45) = 21.21 W

Now lets say the phase angle was 0 (like for a pure resistor)

15rms * 2rms * cos(0) = 30 W

so you can see, just by changing the phase angle (which all inductors and capacitors do) we can vary the real power from zero to full even though we get the same rms readings on the voltage and current!

It is this relationship that sends many off on the wrong path thinking they have something that they don't.

I could be wrong about his tests, but without that crucial bit of info - its just a nice video and nothing more.

Cool



about what is these data relevant to where? I would be in help but now hawe not any time About which video are thenumbers? May be INKOMP?
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Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:37 am PostPost subject:
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Hi Bano,

The numbers are just for demonstration and are not real.

INKOMP needs to show the phase angle (between current and voltage) in order to correctly assess the power involved. And the time must be factored in to correctly compare input energy to output energy.

For example, I am charging a battery with 2 Amps for 16 hours, so that is 32 Amp-hours of charging at 12V my average power is then 24 watts throughout the charging cycle. I then measure the output power when starting my car and find it to be 12V at 600 Amps for 3 minutes of cranking giving an average of 7.2 Kilowatts out. Hmmmm 24 Watts in and 7.2 Killowatts out? So as you can see, comparing input power to output power seems to be missing something important and that is time which relates to energy. 1 Watt for 1 second = 1 joule. There are 3600 seconds in an hour and we charge for 16 hours. So we get 1,382.4 Kilo Joules of input charge energy. Doing the same for the output we get 3 minutes for 180 seconds times 12 times 600 gives us 1,296 Kilo Joules of output energy. Alas, the output is less than the input from an energy standpoint.

Now, where varying voltage and current are concerned in circuits with capacitance and inductance, we get a phase angle between the voltage and current and that completely changes the power equations. Especially when the waveforms are not clean periodic waves like sine, triangle or square waves. If they are periodic, we can calculate the rms values and use them extrapolate the real power. But without the wave shape and the phase angle chances are the equipment is not telling the whole story.

Cool
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:27 am PostPost subject:
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Harvey wrote:
Hi Bano,

The numbers are just for demonstration and are not real.

INKOMP needs to show the phase angle (between current and voltage) in order to correctly assess the power involved. And the time must be factored in to correctly compare input energy to output energy.

For example, I am charging a battery with 2 Amps for 16 hours, so that is 32 Amp-hours of charging at 12V my average power is then 24 watts throughout the charging cycle. I then measure the output power when starting my car and find it to be 12V at 600 Amps for 3 minutes of cranking giving an average of 7.2 Kilowatts out. Hmmmm 24 Watts in and 7.2 Killowatts out? So as you can see, comparing input power to output power seems to be missing something important and that is time which relates to energy. 1 Watt for 1 second = 1 joule. There are 3600 seconds in an hour and we charge for 16 hours. So we get 1,382.4 Kilo Joules of input charge energy. Doing the same for the output we get 3 minutes for 180 seconds times 12 times 600 gives us 1,296 Kilo Joules of output energy. Alas, the output is less than the input from an energy standpoint.

Now, where varying voltage and current are concerned in circuits with capacitance and inductance, we get a phase angle between the voltage and current and that completely changes the power equations. Especially when the waveforms are not clean periodic waves like sine, triangle or square waves. If they are periodic, we can calculate the rms values and use them extrapolate the real power. But without the wave shape and the phase angle chances are the equipment is not telling the whole story.

Cool


some new
http://clubs.dir.bg/showflat.php?Board=Phisics&Number=1951858715&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=all&vc=1
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Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:58 pm PostPost subject:
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@Harvey and Bano

Wednesday, September 28, 2011
I finally got the original fizzx to come up, which is formatted in grays and black. I can't get the newer version, formatted in blue and white to come up. I'm pretty sure that this black and gray version doesn't have several submissions such as this that is (was) on the blue-and-white formatted web page.

If you get this: any idea what's wrong?
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Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:11 pm PostPost subject:
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Harvey,

Who am I now?

JWG or Diffident?
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Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:17 pm PostPost subject:
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Harvey,

I shut down and started back up and now I'm on the new blue and white version of the formatting. I don't know if I'm diff or jwg!
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Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:25 pm PostPost subject:
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Harv, I'm dif. I also found out how to tell without actually posting. I'll try to stay logged in. I see that my remarks on the old formatting under JWG show up on this blue formatting.

I'm curious whether you've had a chance to work on the standard rig from Clanzer.

Cheers.
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Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:33 am PostPost subject:
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Hi Diff,

Some of your posts are JWG and some are Diffident. I've noticed that if I log out the default view is the Grey one for Guests. The Blue and White (which has the nav buttons) is set in the user preferences IIRC.

CLaNZeR's rig has been calling me everyday, whimpering to be powered up as I keep it in view as a reminder - but my time has been at a premium and I don't want to rush things when I start experimenting with it. I was wrong about it being a Mueller version - that would be a different rotor config than what CLaNZeR sent - but this is a very sweet setup full of possibilities and flexibilities. I may have to simply budget some time for it rather than thinking things will slow down again.

Good to hear from you -

Racho's link was in another language and I didn't take the time to interpret it - does anyone know what he's on about there?

Cool
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Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:39 pm PostPost subject:
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Hello Harvey,

Somehow I got back on the blue and white as diffident. I usually don't log out, couldn't log in on grey for guests, but here I am. I'll figure it out sooner or later.

Reference Racho, I only have English.

I was thinking the rig was adaptable to Romerouk's. CLaNZeR was also working on an all-permanent-magnet rig (before becoming side-tracked) based on Steorn technology. I hope he gets back to that one, too. Non-electromagnet devices interest me the most, although it seems more like a pipe dream than ever!

Hang in there,

diffident

Here's hope that you'll somehow find time to work with your new rig!
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Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:45 pm PostPost subject:
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Side note @Harvey:

Assuming that Romero's device was a bit different from Meuller's.
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Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:37 am PostPost subject:
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Harvey wrote:
Hi Diff,



Racho's link was in another language and I didn't take the time to interpret it - does anyone know what he's on about there?

Cool


here is the work of the group:
http://mazeto.net/index.php/topic,4396.msg36103/topicseen.html#msg36103
If it is there some new and good I will tranlsate it for fizzx.org forum
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Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:59 pm PostPost subject:
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Hello Harvey,

I just reviewed your pendulum video again (Bano's post above). I've forgotten: what's the orientation of the magnet on the rotor?

diff
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