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Sun May 16, 2010 4:24 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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Magluvin wrote:



From what I have been studying lately, if you wind the horse shoe bar, bifilar, as in, if it takes 100 ft of wire to wind it normal, then 2 lengths of 50ft wound together, each turn side by side, and then hook the 2 coils in series, you should get more magnetic pull than the normal way. And it uses the same amount of energy to operate, because the 2 50ft lengths of wire are the same resistance as the single 100 ft.

But as of yet I cannot say that there is overunity from this, just better efficiency.
But lets say we have a normal electric motor that is say 90% eff. , If we wound it bifi, would we peak out over 100%? Cant say for sure yet. =]

Mags


Hi Mags

Thank for the input, problem is I intend not to use any coils or electrical input at all. I just want to use magnetic paths and mechanical leverage to drive the unit.

I followed the Ferro poxy lead you gave me, and since talking to a mate who has dealings with the F1 KERRS systems used for storing wasted energy, it turns out they use a similar method to construct the flywheel which makes it light with no eddy current problems.

The question I am asking is can you increase the pull over distance if you use different shapes/ materials on the poles and the bar between them?
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Mon May 17, 2010 2:39 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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MADPROF wrote:

The question I am asking is can you increase the pull over distance if you use different shapes/ materials on the poles and the bar between them?


Materials such as Supermendur, or even "annealed pure iron" have stronger attraction than steel. There are also some pretty high strength Alnico horseshoe magnets available. Neos are about as powerful as you can get for magnets but I only know 1 source for anything resembling a horseshoe shape, and they are expensive and probably wouldn't meet your needs anyway: http://www.supermagnetman.net/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=37a316cf60a6335ac130fdf73c529997

Pole pieces can be shaped from high-permeability materials to "focus" and concentrate a magnetic field, and increase the flux density in a targeted space for greater attraction in that limited range.

But the only way I know of to dial in more magnetism on demand is using electromagnets.

(Watch this just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ySUr7iD-uU )

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Mon May 17, 2010 4:10 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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overconfident wrote:



Pole pieces can be shaped from high-permeability materials to "focus" and concentrate a magnetic field, and increase the flux density in a targeted space for greater attraction in that limited range.

But the only way I know of to dial in more magnetism on demand is using electromagnets.


OC


OC

Pole pieces can be shaped from high-permeability materials to "focus" and concentrate a magnetic field, and increase the flux density in a targeted space for greater attraction in that limited range.

This is what I need , do you have any reference sites?

I think there will be more than enough magnetism with six 1" dia x 1" long neo's, I want the pistons to see a pull from further away.

When the piston reaches TDC there will be a massive pull, but it will have to dwell there for some time before returning to BDC, I need them to be attracted from a greater distance, so I can transfer the pull into the crank this will probably be only 10 degrees or so of crank rotation.

Thanks again MP
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Mon May 17, 2010 6:15 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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MADPROF wrote:

This is what I need , do you have any reference sites?


I don't know of any single source of information about pole pieces. They are usually custom designed for specific applications. Most of the literature will be for those applications.

Google is your friend, don't forget Google Patents, Google Books, and Google Scholar.

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Mon May 17, 2010 7:31 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@OC

Thanks again for your input. I am not sure how well these paths are going to work yet, so will have to fabricate them up and see what happens.

The plan is to cut the paths in a laminated MDF block and cast the resin mix straight in and finish machine when set. I plan to use ferrous oxide powder with some nickel and cobalt powder all mixed in a polyester resin.

Will keep you up dated as work progresses.
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Tue May 18, 2010 4:53 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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MADPROF wrote:

The plan is to cut the paths in a laminated MDF block and cast the resin mix straight in and finish machine when set. I plan to use ferrous oxide powder with some nickel and cobalt powder all mixed in a polyester resin.


Doesn't sound like very good permeability. You want stronger attraction, use materials with higher permeability and Bsat (saturation flux density). Pure soft annealed iron is good and there are some more exotic things like supermendur that are even better.

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Tue May 18, 2010 5:45 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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overconfident wrote:

Doesn't sound like very good permeability. You want stronger attraction, use materials with higher permeability and Bsat (saturation flux density). Pure soft annealed iron is good and there are some more exotic things like supermendur that are even better.

OC


OC

Granted it's not the best way to go, but it's cheap and quick to test.
My way of thinking was that if you make the path in steel and get it right, you would have close to 300LBS of pull required to separate the piston, but the eddy currents would kill it when you tried to spin it up. By using ferro poxy you should eliminate the eddy's but as you say not have the permeability. I'm using a sledge hammer to crack the nut Wink
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