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Isothermal Thermionic Converters

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Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:59 pm PostPost subject:
Hardcastle
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Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:16 pm PostPost subject:
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Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:26 pm PostPost subject:
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is ok now Mr. Green

Thanx for the files Phil. I read the column paper as carefully as possible on the few hours sleep I got last night. I still need to read the MTCCREL, just skimmed it so far.

I think I will need to see the figures outlining the energy expense for the 3600 RPM compared to the flow production. Also, I am not certain if torque vectors are correct as drawn. As regards the disc surface, I would expect that under the outlined forces the emitter needles would sublimate at a molecular level but that is just conjecture. I do have in mind a special tube that may enhance the flow effects and would close circuit 2 in the apparatus I outlined in my e-mail. At the very least it would make an interesting lamp.

Your theory sounds plausible. What is the old adage...'somthing' in the details...I can't recall how it goes. I'll try and look it all over a bit more when I'm properly rested. Thanx again.

Cool
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Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:50 pm PostPost subject:
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Last edited by Hardcastle on Tue May 26, 2009 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:24 am PostPost subject:
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@Phil

I am sorry you don't like silly ideas because I am full of them.

For instance would it be possible for a whole bunch of weak plasmon waves to be focused at a point so that together they could help emit a whole mess of electrons and would they in anyway using curled ballistics or whatever produce more energy then it took to make the plasmon waves?
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:24 am PostPost subject:
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Hardcastle wrote:
Hi noncents,

I have many documents, some in draft form, some as patents.

However I only started posting as I had spare time on my hands.

If I post highly mathematical stuff no one wants to talk, so I was engaging at a light level.

Now I would not have bothered except that Joshs has been getting up my nose. So in a rush of blood I joined Steorn to debate him only to find he is just not worth it


Hi Philip.
Thanks for your response. I can understand why you would want to join the Steorn forum to counter Josh but then being so disgusted or disappointed by his tactics that you would want to leave forever. The steorn forum used to be a lot more interesting. It was always full of doubters and those that called for evidence. They just used to be a little more mature, or clever and engaging on the matter. Now it's just painful to read the posts in the steorn forum. Good luck to you.
Tim
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:52 pm PostPost subject: Re: Isothermal Thermionic Converters
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Phil,

Ok, as far as the rotating apparatus is concerned, I assume that the trajectory of the electrons that escape from the emitter impart a net torque on the inner disc / cylinder. I wasn't certain that you could consider the effect of the "impact" of these electrons to have the effect you would expect in a classical setup, but I'll accept that as well.

So given that there's a constant flow of electrons from outer to inner and that a proportion are absorbed, doesn't the collector become saturated? If it does, wouldn't this have the effect that further electrons would generally be repelled from the surface and therefore unable to impart their momentum to the inner disc? This seems like it would lead to a burst of electrons when things start up and a small torque on the inner disc, followed by everything coming to a halt?

S
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:41 pm PostPost subject:
Hardcastle
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:27 pm PostPost subject:
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When an electron is ejected from the surface, is there a corresponding recoil? i.e. if an electron is ejected at an initial angle of 45 degrees in a clockwise direction, is there a corresponding recoil in an anticlockwise diirection?
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:38 pm PostPost subject:
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Gaps can be manufactured that are just a single carbon atom thick. Once we are down to this level, we then need to deal with Casimir energies randomly interfering with the desired flow.

Regarding math, there is a BHO for this forum that allows full math capability. Some of the readers may wish to see it. Clicking on an equation will enlarge it, which is a nice touch.

I still have to read your other document. Confused Just catching up on the posts here first.

Cool
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:03 pm PostPost subject:
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Harvey,

And WhiPmag?
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:19 pm PostPost subject:
Hardcastle
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Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:47 pm PostPost subject:
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Then isn't the logical extension to that, that you don't need to consider emission from the outer ring at all?

1) I place a cylinder whose surface has a low work function inside a cylinder with a very high work function.

2) I apply a suitable magnetic field to the setup as you describe.

3) The inner cylinder emits electrons that on average are emitted perpendicular to the surface.

4) The issue of recoil is irrelevant as the spread of emission trajectories ensures no net torque

5) As soon as an electron escapes the surface, the magnetic field affects it's trajectory curving it back towards the cylinder for impact (dependent on magnetic field strength)

6) The cycle continues - electrons escape the surface and skip around the cylinder, preferentially imparting torque to the cylinder under the influence of the magnetic field.
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:23 am PostPost subject:
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Harvey wrote:
Gaps can be manufactured that are just a single carbon atom thick. Once we are down to this level, we then need to deal with Casimir energies randomly interfering with the desired flow.
Cool


But is the gap stable enough to be rotated at speed?
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:34 am PostPost subject:
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Actually I could simplify that last setup further:

1) Construct an evacuated cylinder which rotates about it's long axis.

2) Ensure the *inner* surface of the cylinder is a material with a low work function

3) Apply the magnetic field as previously described

4) Now electrons are constrained to skip around the inner surface imparting preferential torque

That seems like you'd have more electrons contributing more interactions that would be considered useful.
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:10 am PostPost subject:
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:14 pm PostPost subject:
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@Phil

Have you made contact with Prof. John L. Stickney yet?
And if so any joy?
If joy, how long will it take?
Weeks, months, years?
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:36 pm PostPost subject:
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:47 pm PostPost subject:
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Thanks for informing me Phil. Very Happy
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:03 pm PostPost subject:
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@Phil
If you don't know what Charlie and Paul are working on with there diode array experiments and are curious then Charlie has just posted an email from Paul.
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=61658&page=1#Comment_2356663
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:20 pm PostPost subject:
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:25 pm PostPost subject:
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:29 am PostPost subject:
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There is a schism in the diode array camp Charlie believes it should be made in series and Paul thinks Parallel. The trouble with working with such micro currents is that cynics can claim dozens of possible ways they might be produced (how ever improbable) and then claim one of those must be the answer and that 2lot is perfect. Leaving the poor old inventor to try to develope expensive technology all on their own and if they ask for financial help they are called scam artists. That is why I buy Euro lottery tickets when there is a large rollover, one can always hope.
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:33 am PostPost subject:
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:13 pm PostPost subject:
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Yes you device will be great in Australia with all that ambient heat your device will solve the water problem too.
Why should I be worried? Your device is not going to make a black hole like the LHC is it? At least you got joshs googling Fu (a few years ago that last statement would have made no sense to anyone Shocked )
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:16 pm PostPost subject:
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I can't keep on calling it your device. Why don't you think of a nice sexy name for it? Whackadoo maybe? Laughing
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:02 pm PostPost subject:
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Curladoo
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:27 pm PostPost subject:
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Philion? Philthion?
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:25 pm PostPost subject:
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Philament?
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Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:55 pm PostPost subject:
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Its got to be;-

Philamonic
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