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Magluvins oven. Whats cookin?

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Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:53 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Magluvin wrote:
Hey Harvey. How ya been?
I just love the thought of the current flow having inertia and the build up of pressure like water pipes. Having these huge coils with soo many turns, the longer the wire, the higher the peek pressure at the cutoff.
This is the stuff we need to work on.
Thanks for your post Harvey, loved it.

Mags


Hi Mags, doing ok - Laurie tried to buy me some more of the Hematite mags today - the company I bought them from said they won't be carrying them any longer Sad - I guess I'll have to order from K&J the 1". Still bummed about my toroid, not looking forward to rewinding another.

Bruce DePalma was ahead of his time - sorry to lose him at such a young age. If you look carefully at the way his machine was designed, you will find that he was capitalizing on the Faraday Paradox. One of the characteristics of this approach is to reduce the friction along the edges by using a conductive superfluid. There is another way which I have not discussed with any before. Although Al (TK) has mentioned the use of special compounds for the conduction along the edge of the disc, I have realized that Tesla gave us a critical piece that both DePalma and others have set aside. The reason, is that the generator is not generally viewed as a high voltage machine. But that is where the magic occurs. When the N-machine is constructed in a vacuum and properly primed with a high voltage, the generated power will traverse that vacuum in a frictionless manner. This is important because the cohesive nature of most fluids would load down the discs thereby limiting the performance. The principle action DePalma recognized was that as the diameter increased one fold, the energy increased four fold. This is related to the surface area of a sphere, which is how we view the magnetic field. Pi time diameter squared. So a 12 unit diameter has 452 units of magnetic surface, and a 24 has 1810 units. He attributed his gains to that paradigm. Why haven't any experimenters succeeded in validating his work? I would be interested in knowing how TK is coming along with his research in that regard.

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Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:16 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Hey Harvey
I found it very very interesting on how he mounted the magnets to the disk and it still produced the currents in the disk. This will be the first explanation of how magnets only distort the energy around them, that got me to understand what that meant.
What I was thinking is, the output, if it were connected to a capacitor, would it only charge to the 1.3v, or so, even though there is so much current flow? Lets say we added a diode, still only 1.3v? What would happen if it were put through a resistor network as a current source? I remember that stuff from electronics classes.
Now if we us a dc-dc converter, that converts 1,3v/3000 amps to 12v/250amps, along with eliminated drag on the generator, I find that to be very intriguing.
From what I see is that the disk can be replaced by copper wire spokes, each with a diode, and have the magnets do the rotating. This can eliminate the brushes, which are load resistive themselves, by separating the disk into sections that are rectified to only output, not re-entering a solid disk.
That eliminated drag is key to any generator.
And by Tesla's ideas on it, this is the way to make free energy.

Magluvin
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Well, the question arises as to whether or not the measurement leads themselves were the means of producing the energy as the magnet rotated past them. If the center line of the magnetic field was not true to the axial center of the shaft, then then the flux would wander back and forth as it passed the leads thereby causing a current to flow in them.

In practice the current is seen to flow outward from the center of the disc to the edges or vice versa depending on the magnetic B vector. It is exactly the reverse process of a homopolar motor. If we provide the motion, it provides the current flow. But as you can see, it requires a stationary recipient for the current contact points. The current, the B and the torque must all be 90 to each other for maximum effect.

The diodes are not needed. The polarity of the current is dependent on the direction you turn the discs.

Suppose we combine a Wimshurst machine with the N machine. If the N machine discs are properly isolated, we can elevate their potential well above ground by placing them at the output of the Wimshurst discs. Now it is a simple matter of allowing the charge to stream to the pickup ring across the vacuum just as electrons do in a CRT. The N machine provides the current punch and we have no contacts to concern ourselves with other than some electrostatic brushes on the Wimshurst machine attached to the same shaft (well one wheel anyway). The HVDC of substantial current can then be converted as necessary.

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Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:58 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Been doin some experiments. I got rid of the rotor and inserted the reed in the center of the coil. The reed naturally will not close till the field is there.
So with the reed in the coil, I introduced a magnet to the end of the coil. The polarity of the mag facing the reed should be opposite of the field produced by the coil when energized.
Once the magnet is in close enough to activate the reed, the coil is energized and counters the external magnet field and opens the reed. By adjusting the magnets position, the frequency of the reed changes.
Last night I let it run for 12 hours and the bat held the same and after turning it off the volts were higher than when I started.
My meter reads Hz, but Im not sure if it is correct when measuring the bemf pulses directly. It measured 44khz at the coil, and 1.5khz after the bemf capture filter. And 3800hz at the battery.
I can hear the reed buzz, so it seems more like 1.5khz

Im not sure how fast a rotor combo can pulse the coil as compared to what I have done here.
I am going to run it again tonight and see what we get.

Mags
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:34 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Now that is a fast 'chopper' Wink
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:03 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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I had the same thoughts. Buck, boost, chop. I understand pwm power supplies.
But Im interested in how denser coils, larger henries, might be different considering that pressure effect we were talking about. I ran some tests also that show how the field collapse will be divided if you add more coils to collect it. like a pwm ps. It is all helpful experience to put all this stuff straight in my head. Seeing is believing with this kinda thing.
I sure wish I had a scope.

From what I see out there about the bifi coils, a lot of descriptions of the purpose seems quite diluted.
Of course if you wire the 2 coils in series, there will be more inductance. If it were 100 turns single and 100 turns bifi, the bifi is like a 200 turn coil. Those are the more popular descriptions, but dont really impress me. Yet.
But if you connect the 2 at the inner winding, as tesla had, the 2 oppose and create no field. Im still reading to get a grip on why he does it that way. Perhaps the inductance is huge with no field created, thus the inductance is larger than the resistance. Maybe that is where the advantage is. Still trying to grasp teslas writings on that.

Mags
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:33 am PostPost subject:
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I just saw today, that Dr. Koontz did the exact same thing to produce scalar waves. According him, it taps into exigent(sp) energy. This may be what Tesla had done. Dr. Koontz had some sort of light show up everywhere. Weird.

http://www.doctorkoontz.com/Scalar_Physics/Halo_Energy.htm

http://www.doctorkoontz.com/

It's late, I need zzzz's

Will check back in about 16 hours - out all day when I wake up.

Cheers,

Cool
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:10 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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hey Harvey
I had seen that page a couple days ago, but I dont see any use for it, as in producing energy. He claimed the waves made him tired and made holes in the clouds above his house. Not much interest there for me.
But teslas radiant energy antenna setup looks like a better candidate. The capacitor will be the most critical part. It has to be electrostatic proof.
Supposedly Tesla made an electric car self charging this way. From what I had found, some info is distorted as to the actual antenna on the vehicle, from one article to another. One said a 6ft antenna and the other said 2 1/4in by 3in rods. and it was captured through a circuit that contained 12 tubes and some resistors, no caps. Is is said that they drove the car 50 miles and then went even further, and it just kept going. All with a large 12v battery and an 80hp motor. the motor was ac so I would think that the tubes, at least some of them, were more for motor control if the motor was ac. But that part may have been installed previously to the radiant charger. Like I said, some stories vary as to what is what.

Considering that his radiant energy device used a good earth ground connection, the car may have used the chassis as a ground source and the setup may have been more advanced than what the radiant energy pat. shows. He may have came across a more tuned setup that focused on particular frequencies. One article that said the 3in rods were the antennas, Rex Research, went on to work out the possible tuning frequencies for the 2 antennas size. And it seems to agree with what Tesla claimed to be very high frequencies. But I tend to lean toward the 6 footer, considering Morays and teslas radiant energy claims. But as I said, this may have been a more advanced setup, 1931.

The reason I say that he may have used the cars chassis as a potential source of ground is, when I was a kid with my Radioshack electronic kits, I had made a crystal radio set, that worked well with an earth ground connection, but I experimented and found that if I connected the radios ground to a large pipe that wasnt connected to earth ground, lets say on a table or even suspended, that the radio still worked. Not quite as well as earth ground, but it was portable in a sense. I had gotten the idea to try it from the explanation in the kit instructions, that the ground was a potential source of electrons for the radio to make use of the vibrations in the antenna to the tuned circuit.
I had 2 kits, one was 100 in 1 from 1972 and the other one was not RS, it had a peg board with plastic component modules that you could place on the peg board. The modules had posts for connections and the wires had lil compression clips that slid on or snapped on from the side of the posts. That was the kit that the crystal radio worked best. I believe it had a SW circuit also, where the RS kit didnt. I loved those kits.
I remember "The big ear" circuit in the RS kit. It was my favorite. You could hear a whisper in another room. it was the largest circuit in the kit, but it was worth rebuilding every time. I think it was the first project in the book. Memories.
Mags
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:48 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Only got 3 hours sleep, then just got in a little bit ago - just checking in. I'll check back tomorrow - mayhaps my brain will work better then.

Mr. Green
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:45 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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http://www.youtube.com/user/dmurphy25#p/a/u/0/xI30nQswfO0

This guy got his bedini to oscillate like my reed in the coil setup and it appears to be charging 3 batteries. Take a look at his last 2 vids to get the story.
Mag
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:10 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Magluvin wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/user/dmurphy25#p/a/u/0/xI30nQswfO0

This guy got his bedini to oscillate like my reed in the coil setup and it appears to be charging 3 batteries. Take a look at his last 2 vids to get the story.
Mag


Very interesting, will have to see what he comes up with when the DVM batteries are replaced. Wink

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Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:37 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Hey Guys, hope all is good. Havnt gotten all the stuff for the Z project yet, but in the mean time I got something good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOx4rbMtj60
It is a 2 stage pulse motor. the bemf if the drive coil is stored into a cap via rectifier, then a second reed timed off of the rotor, pulses that stored bemf into a second coil, which is not subjected to the rotor, and I get 270v into a second cap. So from 2.5v in the drive gives 25v bemf to a cap, then the second stage uses that 25v and turnes that into 270v. What would a third stage give? 2700v? Mr. Green Need some bad ass reeds.
Hope you like

Mags
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Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:01 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Magluvin, this is really really good work!

I would be interested in seeing how a standard household light bulb would look as a load on the secondary coil. This would give us a feel for the power involved. Is that possible?

Keep up the great work!

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Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:00 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Hey Harv Thanks

The first stage pumps the cap in a different way than capturing a bemf spike.
My diode is reversed so it doesnt allow the big spike into the cap the way we have all seen. In a traditional setup, the diode directs the hv spike to the cap, or bat. after the reed opens. This way the reed dumps into the coil and the cap through the diode. When the reed releases, the coil/diode/cap get into an interesting relationship. Pumping that cap hard. Maybe only 10 times the input voltage and not 100 times, but its not a weak lil spike I have been dabbling with since my start in pulse motors.
My second stage definitely has more current potential compared to just a first stage spike capture. I did a first stage setup with spike capture, 250v and a 10k resistor will bring it down to maybe less than a volt quick. On my second stage, 270v, a 1 k res only brings it down to 5v. And it loads the caps much faster. The first stage cap can be large, and its better that way so it can simulate the battery function of the first stage, in the second.
When I was only getting 25v from 2.5, I was expecting at least above 100v.
I was checking for broken wires, busted reeds, different coils, I couldnt figure it out.
But when I reversed the diode and got my 200v+ only then did I realize that my diode was backwards from what I was originally going for. It was strange.
But if I hadnt made that mistake, the outcome would have never driven a second stage, no how no way, no current.

The second stage likes big bulky 1 ohm coils and produces over 270v fast, running off of the first stage cap. Whacky A fine wire coil with many windings would produce a great hv spike on bemf, but here it is the other way around. The output volts are lower.
Im going to do a vid later with the big dog coil I ran today, .9ohm, you would never think it would work better, but it does.
Glad you liked Wink

Mags
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Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:36 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Ok, so your output at this time is only 0.025W - not enough to light up much of anything. But, the process is very interesting. I am very curious if more energy can be found there than what is being dumped into the motor. Please keep us updated. I am also trying to understand the 'backwards' diode configuration - do you have schematic?

Best Regards,

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Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:17 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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For a few hours, I was pondering if I am mistaken of what is going on with this setup.
Being that the first stage reed is connecting the cap, though the diode, and the coil to the bat, that maybe that is all that is happening and the second stage reed is just pulsing at the same time as the first and the second stage is just running off of the bat also with the first. I was depressed, how could I miss that. But I dug in and eliminated the first stage coil and diode, just leaving the reed and bat to pulse the cap, leaving the 2nd stage the same. Well no matter where I put the reeds, I dont get the same results.
I would think that the cap would fully accept the bat current and/or the reeds firing at the same time, thus connecting stage 2 to the bat, as I began to expect, but Im not getting the same results. I also did this test with the first stage diode in place but it got warm on the big dog coil, where I had no heat on the full setup. Also the first cap, with this new test setup seems to bare down the load the larger it is, where before, using the largest one I had was best. It was really hard on the first reed the larger the cap was, where in the full setup, the smaller the cap was harder on the reed.
So at least for now I feel better on those issues. Its showing that there is an advantage to the original first stage influence on the second compared to driving the big dog directly through the 2 reeds alone. I was a bit worried thinking about it and how best to check.
As for lighting a big light bulb, I wouldnt think so yet. Rolling Eyes But there is something going on here that would needs more trying.
I had Whipmag depression for few hours, just about convinced that I screwed up.
But I feel all better now. =]
Im going to do a big dog vid later.

magluvin
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Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:46 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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I'm glad you worked through that. Naturally, there must be some path for the current to flow between potentials. In the beginning, you have a potential across the battery terminals. But after the motor begins spinning, you get an induced potential in the coils and that can easily alter the path structure. 4.5VDC will not flow through the caps - that path is closed to the batteries. However, if we pulse that DC, then the change in current can be passed through the caps as they are responsive to it. But a path must be present to bring it back around to the other terminal of the battery if we expect current to flow that way. It would be very good at this point to draw a diagram of what you had demonstrated in your first video.

The voltage produced in a secondary coil is proportional to the rate of change in magnetic flux in the primary coil. This is an important thing to keep in mind. Theoretically, the magnetic field produced by a conducting primary extends out toward infinity, so reaching across the rotor should be easy. How fast that field builds or collapses determines how high the voltage will be in the secondary coil as the field passes through it. This is why the reed switch is so effective - when the contacts open, the resistance between them goes from zero to infinity (well actually to 0) instantly on the final break as the final molecules separate from each other. This allows the field to collapse at light speed. Arcing at the contacts reduces this speed effect and the only way to keep the speed up and reduce the arc is to swap current for voltage in the primary so the BEMF spike is below the arc point of the contacts.

The intensity of the magnetic flux reaction on the coils is what we call current (and this is why current is represented by the letter I ) and this is directly related to the density of the flux which is proportional to the field strength. So the more current we pull through the primary coil, the stronger the field. And that will be induced in the secondary during the rapid collapse of the primary field when the contacts open. Any energy (current x voltage x time) absorbed in the secondary, will be a reduction to the BEMF in the primary as the power is transformed from one coil to the other through the magnetic path instead of the electrical path. It may be easy to see, then, that a sawtooth waveform can be very effective in producing high energy transfer and may be directly related to the phenomenon originally observed by Steven Marks in the old Philco TV sets. This is because the horizontal and vertical sweep of the yoke coils are driven with this type of waveform. The falling edge of a sawtooth waveform can only be as steep as the time frame of the switch. The faster the switch (from conduction to non-conduction) the steeper the drop - this is dV/dt or delta voltage over delta time. The reed switch is probably one of the fastest switches on earth for that specific function. As long as you stay well below the current value to keep from heating the contacts and stay below the arc voltage, they should last a very long time. Because of the desired slow build, or ramp up, any switch bounce on the closing period can be neglected - it is a loss event, but usually operates as a ring which nets to zero anyway. The reason you want a slow build, is to avoid inductive reactance in the secondary(ies) during the expansion of the field. A slow building field will pass through the secondary with little impact to that field as the inductor producing it (the primary) becomes saturated. This is desirable.

The charge time of your primary inductor will set the rise of the sawtooth which will not be linear, but that is ok, it is the time it takes to get from the bottom to the top that matters. It needs to be long enough that the secondary inductive reactance does not interfere too greatly with the expansion. Then the collapse of the primary field will be where the magic occurs. It will create in the secondary, a very steep rising voltage, a spike, and that tension can pierce the vacuum in a way that energy is allowed to follow it back.

You no doubt are wondering how much of the magnetic field is really passing through the coil. And at this point, the geometry of the primary and secondary become important. It is my opinion, that the best configuration is as follows:

A primary, wound on itself like a wreath with a specific tuned spiral, major radius and minor radius for the specific application. An air space dielectric of sufficient volume surrounding that toroid to prevent electrical breakdown between the subsequent secondary and the primary. The secondary would also be like the primary, but instead of being wrapped on itself, it would be wrapped around a toroid support and arranged so there are no gaps in the wraps.

So the center of the toroid minor radius would have the primary as a core. Then an air gap, then outer skin of the toroidal assembly would be the secondary windings. A material whose dielectric is near that of air could be used as the support structure. Feed through for the primary contacts should be brought toward the center of the toroid major radius and offer enough dielectric clearance around them as is necessary. The capacitance produced between the primary and secondary should be measured and incorporated into the operational frequency.

Multiple layers can be added to the toroid until no BEMF is produced in the primary as all of the energy is then absorbed by the secondaries. Each layer can be put in series giving a very high voltage output or they can be paralleled to produce a higher current output (as long as the phasing is properly addressed).

I also have a concept for a spherical coil which I can share (and have already published elsewhere a long time back) which would be interesting to work with.

Cheers,

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Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:53 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Z always tells me to use same pole out on my drive coil rotor setups. But if a N pole goes by an air coil, the field passes through one side of the winding causing a current flow, then passes the center, then passes through the other half of the winding. If I have alternating mags facing out, where each side of the winding gets opposite magnetic fields passing through them at the same time, wont I get more current flow?
I read somewhere that our way we are taught about how electro magnets work and use, diverts us away from better ways to apply them. Like using an iron core, it may increase how the coil acts, but if we are looking to let those magnetic fields rise and collapse as fast as they can, that iron would offer an impedance to that speed, similar to aluminum, but maybe not the same. I get how the core concentrates the field to the center of the coil, but does that distract the field from actually passing through the actual windings like a Faraday dynamo? Crazy aint it.

Magluvin
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:04 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Just did a lil vid of a pulse motor using Whipmag style rotor. Nothing great yet, just had a thought of if it would work. The double bubbles may offer a difference or advantage in some ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k_bz4nZaD4

Hope everyone is doing well. =]

Mags
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:10 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbRvIqqatI

Just a short vid explaining my polarizing magnet and reed operation. There are some critical reasons for setting up the reed. If you have it in the wrong orientation, you may be getting 2 pulses, where you only want 1. I wonder if Axles reed on his Z setup just needs proper alignments to work right.

Mags
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:40 am PostPost subject:
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Nice vids. Howya been?

(I'm still waiting for the day when you disconnect the batteries and it just keeps spinning.) Wink
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:48 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Hey Oc
Im doing good. I quit my job about 3 mo. ago and been doing stereo systems at my shop. That place was making me crazy anyway.
How bout yersellf?

I tell ya, this pulse motor stuff is a bit enlightening. Working with it gives a deep understanding of pole switching when trying different things. So its giving me some ideas on the pmm side. =]
Funny, I was thinking earlier to send you an e, but here we are.

Getting rid of the batteries just may be possible. I ordered some big reeds on ebay to handle more current for some ideas I have about some things. The RS .5A reeds just dont cut it, they are ok for 1.2v or 1.5v, but 2 or more batteries fugedaboudit.

This BEMF stuff, when you capture it and return it to the bat, it does make a noticeable difference in efficiency. When using the 1 ohm coil I show in the vid, beyond the impedance to the initial rush of current, the dc current through the 18awg wire of the coil is high. The thing with the high freq bemf pulse is, the higher the freq, the more the electrons flow just on the skin of the wire, skin effect.

Sooo, what I plan on doing is using the big reeds to run the big coil and do a few distance runs and document them. Then, I remake the coil out of many fine wires that combined equal the 18awg wire of the big dog, and do the tests again. Due to more skin available on the fine wires, my bemf capture should be greater than the original coil, voltage and current. I cant say how much till I try, but it will be more. I could do it with the lil green coil in the vids but that would take some very fine wire to get as much skin as the larger one, so thats the reason for going large with fries. =] I also am thinking of a transformer that takes the bemf from the drive coil to step the high voltage bemf down to just couple digits above the bat voltage in hopes to improve the recharge current availability.

I like how the whip rotor config works out for these setups. "The bubbles are strong in this one they are." Wink
It is giving me a different drag/charge effect that seems to be good compared to the mag poles facing out. I have to do comparison test with both of these rotors Im using with each in both configurations and it will tell if there is anything to it.

Anywho, good to hear from ya, and you will see me back at pmm's soon. I got a few bubbles brewing that have me itching to try that are improvements to my last idea and it doesnt require magnet balancing acts.

Mags
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:49 pm PostPost subject:
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Magluvin wrote:

I like how the whip rotor config works out for these setups. "The bubbles are strong in this one they are." :wink:
It is giving me a different drag/charge effect that seems to be good compared to the mag poles facing out. I have to do comparison test with both of these rotors Im using with each in both configurations and it will tell if there is anything to it.


What would happen if you let those rotor magnets spin freely?

I proposed something to TK last year, pendulum with spinning pendulum magnet (like a WhipMag stator) passing over a Tesla bifilar coil. He never got very far with my request, got hypnotized by some bifilar coil effects, I guess.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6152.0

But it's an idea you might want to think about. It's actually closer to the original Z spinning sphere idea than what these videos show.

OC
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:56 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Hey Oc
I will reed the thread this evening. Sounds interesting. Just for preview purposes, are you talking about bifi pancake coil or more of the Zeropoint style.
Ya know, just the thought of free turning mags on the rotor, even if they only rock a bit has my brains(all 3 of them =]) going. At first it may seem like an out of control situation, but it may have something to offer.
Ill get back to you this evening after I go over the thread.
I have also thought of using the spheres as rotor mags. I have read that they have a strong, focused directional field at the poles, kind of lighthouse effect. I can see in Z's case that beam of flux passing through the coil.

Magluvin
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:00 pm PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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man Oc, those free spinning rotor mags with stators of some sort are mixxing in my head like a big blender.

=]
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Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:58 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Magluvin wrote:

Just for preview purposes, are you talking about bifi pancake coil or more of the Zeropoint style.


In my proposal last year, I was talking about bifi-pancake coils, Tesla style. But you're the one doing all the work, so do whatever feels good.

One interesting thing about a pancake coil ... it can easily be contoured to the shape of the rotor.

You may need to tune the number of turns to the diameter of the diametric (or spherical) magnets in order to get the best magnet spin. The images in my head indicate small coils would be better than large ones, maybe 2 to 3 times the magnet diameter, so you might want to try some fine wire. If it looks promising, you could place a whole series of small coils around the periphery.

I'm not sure how a core might affect things. It would concentrate the mag field, but I don't know if that would be a good thing or not.

OC
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Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:19 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Hey Oc
I have read some so far. I had seen the TK vid of testing bifi vs regular coil a while back.
My bifi has maybe 500 windings. I cant say that, that many turns stacked the way it is, is necessarily the same as the bifi in tk's vid. I would have to make another that was regular to see the difference. When the coil has many layers, each loop has many other loops surrounding them, where as a single layer only alternates from the next, which has consistency throughout. That would be, to me, the way to get the pure function intended. So in Z's coil, I dont think he is using bifilar in the same manor as the word dictates. But he may be getting the capacitance that can be had that way.
So if mine is 500 turns of 2 conductors, connected in bifi fashion, then I would have to wind a 1000 turn regular to compare the difference to see if I can have a multi layer coil for this setup or pancake.
A pancake coil of the size you are guessing would not have many turns unless the wire were very fine. And then I wonder how much magnetic field there could be created with it. I will have to try some things to see what will work here.

Ok, Im going to read more tomorrow.

mags
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Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:53 pm PostPost subject:
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Magluvin wrote:

A pancake coil of the size you are guessing would not have many turns unless the wire were very fine. And then I wonder how much magnetic field there could be created with it. I will have to try some things to see what will work here.

Ok, Im going to read more tomorrow.

mags


There's not much there on ou.com that relates to this except my description. TK got sidetracked as usual and went off on a tangent, never got around to doing the pendulum tests I suggested.

The image I have says the coil must be pretty small so the spinning magnet can take advantage of the Lenz forces. Synchronization between the swinging pendulum (rotating disc), the spinning magnet, and the coil is more important than the strength of the field. Small forces that assist motion are better than large forces that oppose it.

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Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:11 am PostPost subject:
Magluvin
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Ok, from what I gathered, to test a regular coil to a tesla bifi of the same dimensions, I am going to wind a 100 turn regular and a 100 turn bifi (50 each conductor alternating) on a 1 in core and another set on a 1/2 in core. From what I think you want to know is does the bifi make more magnetic energy compared to the regular coil, using the same volts and current for each, at low voltage, say 1.2v (1 AA) or even 2.4v (2 AA in series).
This will be easy. The coils will be tubular, not pancake. From what I read, I believe TK was avoiding your request, and I think like the whip, he wont divulge the good stuff.
My fat reeds will be here tomorrow or Monday, hopefully. I will need them to compare on a pulse motor, due to the low ohm coils. I will have the coils made tomorrow and try some things with them till the reeds get here.

I have some new ideas for these pulse motors that use less turns and lower ohm coils vs fine wire, high ohm coils. Shorter pulses and lower ohm coils should produce higher currents than the high ohm coils. Z's first coil, I believe functions in a way that the sphere is kind of key to the action. Imagine a light house beam compared to a rotor(6 in. with multiple mags), the angle of deflection will be greater with the sphere. Plus the spheres pole fields are very strong and extended.
So I see that it is not an ou situation that is happening in the coil, it is just a trick in angles and timing of charge and discharge that creates the mechanical ou situation he had. That tells me that the coil may be able to be replaced with a mechanical/permanent magnet configuration. =] working on it.

That reminds me my Z wire hasnt arrived yet. =[

Mags
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Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:15 am PostPost subject:
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Also think about this, lets say the bifi is better, then a quadfi should be better than a bifi.
According to the reasons tesla says they are better. Dunno yet, have to try.
Mags
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