top

AGW question

Post new topic Reply to topic FizzX.org Forum Index | WhipMag Discussion/Development Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3   Page 3 of 3

Mon May 12, 2008 3:24 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

Umm, ok, Yirka's clip isn't upside down, but it appears to be mirror-image...that is, it is flipped vertically from the original, and also horizontally...I mean, if it was just rotated 180 from the original it would be correct left-right, but since it was flipped vertically it mirrored the left-right....oh never mind...just don't blame me this time when you try to read the tach...

edit see below....
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."


Last edited by alsetalokin on Mon May 12, 2008 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon May 12, 2008 3:26 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

OK, that's correct left and right but upside-down, just like the original. Thanks! (I think...)
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon May 12, 2008 7:11 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 1927

Reply with quote

alsetalokin wrote:
Gahh! That's definitely not supposed to have gotten out. Out of self defense I need to provide a timeline, I guess.
First thing to note is that the video is upside-down, and in the original it is actually possible to read the tach. This seems to be a short segment near the end of the original.
The present clip starts with the unit running, 1 AGW and 2 GW stators. At 0:02 I stop the GW stators and it is evident that the unit speeds up and maintains a steady speed until about 0:38 when I stop the AGW stator (out of this frame but visible in the original). Then the unit coasts to a stop.

(edited)


More importantly, you should find out why your upload program merged the two files. My first thought is someone is piggybacking your system somehow. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon May 12, 2008 10:58 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 1927

Reply with quote

alsetalokin wrote:
Umm, ok, Yirka's clip isn't upside down, but it appears to be mirror-image...that is, it is flipped vertically from the original, and also horizontally...I mean, if it was just rotated 180 from the original it would be correct left-right, but since it was flipped vertically it mirrored the left-right....oh never mind...just don't blame me this time when you try to read the tach...

edit see below....


The only Tach reading I was able to extract was 1014 immediately followed by 1602 (1002?) from a rotor reading during rundown after the primary stator was stopped. (I just mentally rotated the whole image 180 around the spindel for those readings).

I think the framing interactions with the rotor and camera show the unit going from steady to rampdown after the primary stator is stopped.

At any rate I'm glad Yirkha's on your side - with talents like his Wink

I enjoyed the Bonetti Video - Thanx for that. It certainly appears that once you primed the system it was able to buildup the charge and keep it in the system. Evidently there were a couple of discharges back through the motor circuit that required repriming?

I find Morays work interesting - especially when he took the FBI guys up the canyon. The type of arc that was drawn across his knife switch when they tried to turn off the system indicated a very high frequency, high voltage, low current electrical path. But the most interesting is that the path needed primed. I visualize the charges on each side of our atmosphere as leads on a transisitor. The air is a semiconductor. It would seem that Moray used an A/C field to create a giant field effect transistor and once it began flowing it would have its own field. Essentially he was controlling a lighting discharge by limitiing the current. Its a shame his son John is having so much trouble with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon May 12, 2008 11:06 am PostPost subject:
JoinTheFun
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Netherlands

Reply with quote

WMP only shows black and plays sound. Sad
_________________
Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Mon May 12, 2008 11:48 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 1927

Reply with quote

JoinTheFun wrote:
WMP only shows black and plays sound. Sad


There are 5 videos - two are from Yirkha and three are from Al.

Al's first video was corrupted and Yirkha salvaged some of the video in two resolutions. Those are AVI's.

Al reloaded the corrupted video with a good version. Al's videos are AMV files (I viewed then with SUPER which also can convert them).

I hope that helps. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon May 12, 2008 1:10 pm PostPost subject:
korkskrew
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 106
Location: Longmont, CO

Reply with quote

Mr.Entropy wrote:
korkskrew wrote:
The problem with these is that they measure position, speed or changes thereof. Those things are a function of torque, friction, drag, etc acting on the mass or MoI. Without being able to separate the contribution of each force it wouldn't really tell you much about the torque.

True, but the non-magnetic forces are constant AFAICT and, therefore, a lot easier to measure in isolation. First, run the system (Al's working system!) on a turntable to see if there's any overall external torque applied. Then, take out the stator magnets, drive the parts to speed with DC motors, and convert current or voltage to torque to get the residual constant torques.

I can't agree. It is likely that friction is a very dynamic thing in the stator at the very least. Drag is dynamic by it's very nature and the aerodynamic drag between rotor and stator is just not going to be easy to measure. The dampers produce a nonlinear drag force.

All I'm saying is that it is going to be incredibly difficult to tease apart the contirbuitions of each part of the system to get to the torque cycle. If someone could devise a reasonable experiment that would produce torque data, it would really be worth doing. I just can't think of one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Mon May 12, 2008 5:57 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 1121

Reply with quote

korkskrew wrote:
Harvey wrote:
korkskrew wrote:
overconfident wrote:
Even better, I'd like to see some real torque measurements from one of the sustained AGW whipmag runs (Al, can you do this?).

Ah, there's the rub. If anyone could devise an experiment method that could map the actual torque curve, I'm sure Al would be all over it in a heart beat. The results of that experiment would answer many questions (and I'm sure would lead to many others).


Accelerometers?

Laser interferometry?

Both?

The problem with these is that they measure position, speed or changes thereof. Those things are a function of torque, friction, drag, etc acting on the mass or MoI. Without being able to separate the contribution of each force it wouldn't really tell you much about the torque.


I was just wondering if "Faraday effect" or "Magneto-optic Kerr effect" could be used to get some meaningful measurements? Or is this what was meant by Laser interferometry?

OC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Post new topic Reply to topic FizzX.org Forum Index | WhipMag Discussion/Development
View previous topic
View next topic
Display posts from previous:   




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum