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Question for WhipMag researchers

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Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:25 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Thin magnets do have that pole variation on the out side edge verses center. The distribution of the domains is interesting on such.
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:08 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Harvey wrote:

ETA: Of course there is the Mizzel Effect Laughing


Interesting video. I wish I still had a copy of that very strange book by Nikolayev, who was Stefan Marinov's mentor. He describes this effect in that book, and I have used the same general idea to produce several interesting devices, such as a switchable permanent magnet about the size of a credit card (attractive only on one flat face), which can be switched off by squeezing lengthwise; and a 1-dimensional non-contact trailer hitch (sort of like a tractor beam of space opera fame, but shortrange).
The book is in Russian and at the time I was looking at it (1999), there was no English translation known, probably still is none, but thankfully there are lots of diagrams and drawings.
Does anybody out there know of this book?
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:26 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Do you know the name of the book, or the first name of author?
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:34 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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Harvey wrote:
Personally I would not use the term 'metastable' for a magnetic configuration of like poles facing because it implies that added energy could cause a stable situation.

Question Question Question Surely, it implies just the opposite, i.e. that adding energy causes an unstable situation. Nitro' is metastable. If you add a small amount of energy you have a big explosion.

But maybe you mean something like this. If I push a rock up the hill towards the dimple on top then I am adding energy and if I add just enough to get it into the dimple then I am adding energy and getting a stable situation - albeit a meta-stable situation. Of course I have to add just the right amount of energy. Too little and it doesn't reach the dimple. Too much and it goes past. So as a generality you are correct. But it is the exceptions which are interesting and the WhipMag would appear to be an exception if we can rely on Al's account, which I do.
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:04 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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RE: Metastable:

See #2 under Physics -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/metastable

In Frank's analogy, the metastable state is at the top of the hill in the dimple, the stable state is at the bottom of the valley. A small energy addition will remove the rock from the dimple thus changing its state from metastable to stable.

Apart from the Mizzel Effect mentioned earlier, I do not see a metastable state for like poles facing.

Cheers,

Cool
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:29 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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But it is not "like poles facing" is it. It is not a single north pole facing a single north pole. If it were that would indeed be unstable.

It is a single north pole facing two north poles which are spaced apart from each other and that is metastable for the reasons I gave.

Obviously I am taking the rotor as relatively fixed and the stator as relatively free which they are in view of the differences in their rotational inertias.
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:09 am PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@AL

Any chance of a close up photo of the spindle side view? so we can determine the distance between bearings.

Many thanks. Cool
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:52 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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"But it is not "like poles facing" is it. It is not a single north pole facing a single north pole. If it were that would indeed be unstable.

It is a single north pole facing two north poles which are spaced apart from each other and that is metastable for the reasons I gave.

Obviously I am taking the rotor as relatively fixed and the stator as relatively free which they are in view of the differences in their rotational inertias."

Is not a position of were it will happen with this device.

Strongest points are closest pole to pole position. Since we have the start up spin, were the normal direction of travel would be the GW. We stop an item from that direction and force it to spin agaist the normal Gw action to an AGW action.

What happens? lets just say it does get to the NNN or SSS position, what is going to happen.

1; a the momentum of both rotor and the push against the stator due to the opposing poles , depending on were it came into this position: Assume for a time it is coming to the center of NNN ect. The stator being a free action device will tend to push to the furthest point away from the pole, remember the direction it is already in motion! Woops as soon as it gets to that far pole position the unlike pole enters the field, It is now in an attraction mode. A pull to position. The device in motion will rarely if ever make the center position you described in the NNN or SSS position. You might observe such in the chaos of a start up, but not wile it is in sync.

In the sync position, the idler will encounter a like pole to pole position After it breaks from a unlike pole pull, it hits this point and causes a push to the stator to flip it to a position of pull against.

In Al's device this is a smooth action on the rotor to an almost even revolution. Note: a small variation can be seen in the rotor momentum from the HSf vids.
Note 2: with out some thing controlling the timing of the rotor here the stator would just try and catch up causing a situation of not enough gain to cause a velocity change in the rotor. The stator would also slow due to the pull against.
In other words AGW by itself will not cause enough gain to see a speed up effect we see in Al,s device.


So by remembering that the stator is free other than the magnetic coupling and both rotor and stator are in motion: the NNN and SSS position you have show is unlikely or rare position to find itself in.
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Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:24 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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@lc
No, I don't know the name of the book, nor can I recall Nikolayev's first name or patronymic. I think Marinov talks about him in "the thorny way of truth"...I'll have to see if I can find it in there somewhere, but it's like getting lost in Little Red Riding Hood's forest, when you open those texts.

@MAD
I'll see what i can do--check back in a few hours...

@Frank
It is almost certain that the cylindrical, diametrically-polarized magnets we are using for the stators will behave somewhat differently, under the wild conditions encountered when whizzing about, than the simpler bar magnets that you are evidently using in your mental models.
Maybe.
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Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:43 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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alsetalokin wrote:


@Frank
It is almost certain that the cylindrical, diametrically-polarized magnets we are using for the stators will behave somewhat differently, under the wild conditions encountered when whizzing about, than the simpler bar magnets that you are evidently using in your mental models.
Maybe.


I couldn't agree more. I am merely exploring theoretical boundary conditions which are inherently interesting. Very Happy
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