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Question for WhipMag researchers

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Wed May 21, 2008 1:58 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Laughing

http://www.pogo.org/index.shtml Shocked
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Wed May 21, 2008 3:09 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Ho ho!

Actually I meant this Pogo...


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Wed May 21, 2008 3:26 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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alsetalokin wrote:
Ho ho!

Actually I meant this Pogo...



Actually, I think Harvey's reference might be a living example of yours. Laughing
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Wed May 21, 2008 3:41 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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Perhaps we are re-enacting The Man who was Thursday.
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Wed May 21, 2008 11:36 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Frank wrote:
Perhaps we are re-enacting The Man who was Thursday.


Did he have a brother that played on Dragnet?
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Wed May 21, 2008 11:38 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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@ Al,

Very Happy I used to read that comic strip.
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Thu May 22, 2008 10:13 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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Harvey wrote:
Frank wrote:
Perhaps we are re-enacting The Man who was Thursday.


Did he have a brother that played on Dragnet?

From a Google search I presume you mean, Sergeant Joe Friday. Unfortunately that witty remark does not travel well since though I might well have watched and enjoyed Dragnet in the 50's when I was a young man, the series was not shown on British TV. Crying or Very sad
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Thu May 22, 2008 3:05 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Ahhh, for the good old days ... Pogo in the morning paper and Dragnet on the tube in the evening.
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Thu May 22, 2008 10:30 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Frank wrote:
Harvey wrote:
Frank wrote:
Perhaps we are re-enacting The Man who was Thursday.


Did he have a brother that played on Dragnet?

From a Google search I presume you mean, Sergeant Joe Friday. Unfortunately that witty remark does not travel well since though I might well have watched and enjoyed Dragnet in the 50's when I was a young man, the series was not shown on British TV. Crying or Very sad


And now you understand my point precisely.

Edit: (And, as rumor has it, I wasn't even around in 1908)
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Fri May 23, 2008 3:45 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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......................................
...................................... Alpha Beta Gamma Delta





Having dug out the essence of my old hydraulics notes from the depths of my memory I can now clothe my assertion that the WhipMag phenomena is hydraulic jump analog with a more detailed explanation.

Essentially the WhipMag splits the magnetic flow into sub-critical and super-critical flow. This gives rise to a quasi-hydraulic jump which releases the energy from the opposing pressures of the electromagnetic and strong forces in the same way that energy is released by the power steering in your car. A small amount of energy put into to the steering wheel releases a large amount of energy from the power steering cylinder.

How this is possible is explained by the following extract from the second of three programmes broadcast by the BBC with the title of ATOM.

By the late forties scientists began to investigate the implications of the way nuclear stability of atoms varied. They noticed one very strange fact about the nuclear stability of one particular atom. Of all the ninety two different elements, of the ninety two different types of atoms that make up the universe around us, gases like hydrogen and oxygen, solids like carbon and silicon, metals like gold and silver, one is special, iron.

So what makes iron so special? It stems from the unique structure of its nucleus. The twenty six protons, along with the neutrons, combine in a very special way to make iron incredibly stable. For some reason nature has decreed this as the number that allows the strong force and the electromagnetic force to balance each other perfectly.


In other words iron is at the critical point in relation to opposing SF-EMF opposing fluxes.


After these things, I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth,
holding the four winds of the earth,
that they should not blow upon the earth nor upon the sea nor on any tree.

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Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:07 pm PostPost subject:
jwk
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alsetalokin wrote:
It is also an onomotopoetic attempt at reproducing the sound of a "rimshot" which is a traditional way that a stage drummer might emphasize the "zinger" or one-liner of a (rather poor) stand-up comic. It is usually comprised of two quick beats on the snare or tom followed by a stroke of the high-hat or a small cymbal.

badump-PSHH! might also approximate the sound, but I like Bada-BING better.

Now, I rather thought this was a cultural universal, not restricted to this side of the pond, but perhaps I'm wrong.


Present for you, should avoid the confusion in future:

http://www.instantrimshot.com/
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:51 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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Two questions

I have been assuming that the AGW mode is essentially a compression mode, i.e. North vs North, South vs South -
sssssssssssstsssssssss and that the GW mode is essentially a tension mode, i.e. North vs South and South vs North.

Is this generally accepted to be the case?

Is there any experimental evidence that this is the case?
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:30 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Frank

The GW tends to be a opposite pole to pole (atraction). It is normally a loss to velocity a drag) Yet there exists a situation if the timing of it is off it will cause a pole to poles opposing to allow a gain of velocity to rotor. It would take more than one of these to allow a effect to tend to cancel out the normal drag.
Agw is also mostly a opposite pole to pole (gain in velocity) with a shear on the pull to, and then a push that will continue the rotation back to a pull to pull loss (pull against velocity).

What I am seeing and suspect it is all three of them things outside of the rotor to allow a gain that was shown in the video. It becomes a timing game of were the kinetic magnetic transfer is going on.
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:14 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Frank wrote:
Two questions

I have been assuming that the AGW mode is essentially a compression mode, i.e. North vs North, South vs South -
sssssssssssstsssssssss and that the GW mode is essentially a tension mode, i.e. North vs South and South vs North.

Is this generally accepted to be the case?

Is there any experimental evidence that this is the case?


You can find greater detail in my prior posts, however here is a quick synopsis of the AGW interactions of the closest proximity flux:

The following degrees are Stator rotation.
AGW rotation is a repetitive 180 event traversing from equator to equator. When 90 into the event the Stator equator line will be tangent to the rotor and the pole facing the rotor will be opposite and equidistant from the two rotor magnet poles. At the 0 and 180 positions, the stator and rotor magnet equators are aligned and approximate an imaginary line between their respective spindles. Thus at 0 and 180 like poles are in parallel repulsion either side of the equitorial alignment. If the Stator and Rotor magnets under observation are retreating from each other then they are in a postive torque repulsive cycle. Conversely, if they are approaching each other, then they are in a negative torque repulsive cycle. The phase angle of the stator shifts to a balanced attraction between 3 magnets at the 90 point. This Y field structure is one of equilibrium and is only overcome by momentum or added energy. The spacing of Al's 3 Stators is such that equilibrium is sequential and never truly balanced by all 3. At optimum natural rest, two will be in stress at opposite vectors while the third center is at equilibrium. In practice however there is a wide variety of equilibrium states with stress vectors sometimes pulling in the same direction for two at a distance and the other opposite in close proximity.

These states of equilbrium introduce periods that must be overcome by momentum or external energy for the device to continue in AGW.

In the event that momentum sufficiently shears through the negative torque repulsive cycle while not shearing the positve torque repulsive cycle, an imbalance occurs requiring acceleration to offset the positive torque. When the positive torque is matched by the angular momentum the system is in equilibrium. Without the MKJD's this speed exceeds the sync window and phase disruption occurs initiating dropout.

The MKJD's absorb energy from the positve torque thus lowering the match speed. This allows the stator to remain sync'd and the unit to continue operating in equilibrium.

Obviously I have illustrated the extremes here an in reality there are gradients between the extremes during the events. Observations show that the equitorial pass is often misaligned as there are small phase delays resulting in a less than optimum arrangement but possibly being attributed with the needed shear differential.

To refute this, all that is needed is to show that sheer is not occuring, but thus far all evidence indicates it is.

Cheers
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:37 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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Embarassed I accidentally deleted this post. Sorry about that. Embarassed
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Last edited by Frank on Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:52 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Frank
I see you did not get the HSF vids. When the slip, break of the pull to, the opposite of what you have drawn: reaches the leading pole of the upcoming rotor magnet, it passes the pole and then goes to an like pole position as it crosses over the rotor magnet. (Push). this tends to cause a parallel alignment of unlike poles of the rotor and stator magnet. Due to the kinetic energy, the rotor continues in the AGW direction.
At the end of this it is again in a pull mode which is a loss to kinetic transfer of both rotor and stator.

Reverse your stator position on the drawing you did. Also it lags about 15 to 17 degrees in the right hand direction of your drawing. In your drawing the stator pole marked N should be marked S.
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:20 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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Ah well. At least that leaves the N-N, S-S mode for the 7 hour run mode. Wink
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:18 pm PostPost subject:
Mr.Entropy
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Frank wrote:
Ah well. At least that leaves the N-N, S-S mode for the 7 hour run mode. Wink

There is no such mode, since N-N, S-S AGW synchronization is unstable (dtorque/dphase > 0).
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:38 pm PostPost subject:
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Mr.Entropy wrote:
Frank wrote:
Ah well. At least that leaves the N-N, S-S mode for the 7 hour run mode. Wink

There is no such mode, since N-N, S-S AGW synchronization is unstable (dtorque/dphase > 0).

Exactly. Very Happy
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:48 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Frank what are you trying to say?
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:03 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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lostcauses wrote:
Frank what are you trying to say?

The hydraulic jump is an example of an instability. It is also an example of energy release. Instability and energy release go hand in hand.
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:24 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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OK
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:23 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Frank wrote:
@ Harvey

Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply which I found most interesting. Very Happy

Just to make sure I have correctly understood your AGW mode statement :

Quote:
"the pole facing the rotor will be opposite and equidistant from the two rotor magnet poles"


I take it that you believe the north pole of the stator does not face the north poles of
the rotor as shown in the diagram below:



I also take it that you believe experiment will confirm that my hypothesis of north vs north, etc., for AGW mode is incorrect.


As lostcauses has stated, the N for the stator should be S. This is a state of equlibrium when momentum is absent.

In the case of hydraulics (like on the beach at the ocean for example) as the energy wave meets with resistance, the weakest link will give out. This happens to be the gravitational pull on the water which results in a standing wave. A rip-tide would be an example of a shear where forces move past each other rather than cancelling or mixing.

In the case of magnetics we also have two other mathematical diminsions when separating electricity and magnetisim into their own dimensions. This way we can mathematically transfer energy from the electric field to the magnetic field and vice versa through the inductive expansion and collapse of the respective fields which exist at 90 angles from each other. Because these two are closely related to photonic activity they provide a less restrictive pathway than would be necessary for contact heat transfer. The opposite is true with regard to water.

If the magnetic field collapses and the electrons are unable to facilitate the inductive push then the energy must be released in some other manner. Remove the hi tension pathway from an old style car engine coil and see where the energy goes.

I am interested in how you apply the jump to the magneto kinetic operation of the WhiPMag Smile
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:32 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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Mr.Entropy wrote:
Frank wrote:
Ah well. At least that leaves the N-N, S-S mode for the 7 hour run mode. Wink

There is no such mode, since N-N, S-S AGW synchronization is unstable (dtorque/dphase > 0).

Mr.Entropy is right of course. N-N, S-S is indeed unstable. But by being right he has drawn attention to the fact that what we have here is not N-N and S-S but N-N-N and S-S-S.



If you think about it you will see that this is not unstable but metastable. If you move the central magnet a small distance to the right then the repulsive force from the right hand magnet will increase and the repulsive force from the left hand magnet will decrease giving us a net restoring force. If the central magnet were a piece of soft iron then the situation would be unstable - but it isn't a piece of soft iron, it's a magnet.

So in the position shown in the diagram it is as though the central magnet is in a dimple on the top of a hill. Push it out of the dimple and it will fall down into the valley and up the next hill to rest in the next dimple, the next metastable state.

But of course it won't reach the next metastable state, will it, because there are energy losses on the journey in-between.

The only way it could reach the next metastable state is if more energy is generated in the AGW mode than is lost in the AGW mode.

So, if it can be shown experimentally the AGW mode is N-N-N -> S-S-S -> N-N-N, etc. then one has incontrovertible proof that the AGW mode is indeed generating free energy.
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:28 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Have look at the strobe vids. You will find that the pole on the stator pictured above is S not N. But as I have mentioned twice already and have demonstrated to Yadaraf in person, the action in this zone is counterintuitive.

Allowing the stator S to rest with the rotor N-N as pictured above does in fact settle at equilibrium. However, when one turns the stator S toward either rotor pole the expected action does not occur.

Intuitively one would expect the closest opposite poles to be attracted to each other but this is not the case in real experimentation of the WhiPMag. Understanding this action is essential for comprehending the overall operation of this magnetic device.

Cool
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:46 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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Are you saying that N-N-N and S-S-S are not metastable states? Very Happy
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:55 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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"N-N-N and S-S-S are not metastable states? "

ROtFLMAO. No they are not, hence the problem with a the stopped idlers.
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:38 pm PostPost subject:
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lostcauses wrote:
"N-N-N and S-S-S are not metastable states? "

ROtFLMAO. No they are not, hence the problem with a the stopped idlers.

In which case you will be able to point out the flaw in my argument.
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:36 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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I believe you are referring to the weakest point between the rotor magnets in relation to the stator poles.
NNN SSS positions.

It is still such that this may seem to be metastable, (a lock point) but is still a push against all poles. Such is unless at the center of say the rotor magnet lines a less stable position than the s
N N position.

In a stationary position such could be used as that state. Hence you hydro concept.
In motion the kinetic Transfer will not allow that position.

Yet the reality is the centerline will between the rotor magnets maintain a very small center, were the stator magnet will push them rotor magnet fields a bit, not enough for what you are trying to say.
It becomes a balance shift of the rotor and stator. One would push away, the other push against both rotor and stator. It would be a conservative consequence. Properly ofset magnets, not in the line form we see, one might be able to use what you sugest.

To say a stable position while in motion would be good, if the stator was a lot closer to the center line of the rotor magnets.

They are not. Even more so when the positions of Al,s stators idlers was placed for a good smooth flip of them items. It tends to be on the out side of the fields, not to the strong coupling that seems to drag the flip. (closer to center line of fields.)

Worse is simple observation says this does not happen. If you would like to make a timing unit to get it there go for it.

You and a lot of other folks are trying to find some thing other than
1:timing done by the idlers in GW and or stopped (some what at that) position) in there relation to the rotor action with the stator in AGW sync.
2 Push pull of magnets to kinetic tranfer of energy (Like poles repel, unlike poles attract)

It is not there that I can find. Maybe when Al does some HSF vids of the idler action then I might have to change me mind.

By the way I could be wrong.... LOL. You might be on to some thing.

Yet you have shown me something to think about in the spacing of the magnets in the thing. I suspect a bit more to come form this. LOL thanks.
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:13 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Personally I would not use the term 'metastable' for a magnetic configuration of like poles facing because it implies that added energy could cause a stable situation. One way to add energy to stablize the field would be to add an opposite pole equidistant from the 3 identical pole faces at 120 vectors. Of course the simpler approach is to subtract energy by placing a ferrous material equidistant from each thus allowing the induced domains to counter commensurately resulting in stablization. Just thinking about the problems with either approach leads me to a term of unstable rather than metastable. Wink

ETA: Of course there is the Mizzel Effect Laughing
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