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Sun May 18, 2008 8:39 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Of course I was just kidding, I have no idea what the strain energy is.
But you've got to admit, it was a perfect set-up...

I think we are not quite ready for the return of vaudeville, but almost.
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Sun May 18, 2008 9:24 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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alsetalokin wrote:
sfandbv wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
measuring the distance that two magnets could repel one another against gravity.


Al, what is this distance?


I don't remember, and I'm not going to do it again, but the comparison is where the energy product of N40-N42 came from, IIRC.

I'm sure it is in the posts somewhere.


N35-N38 IIRC, I'll try to find the reference Wink
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Sun May 18, 2008 9:28 pm PostPost subject:
Yadaraf
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Harvey wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
sfandbv wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
measuring the distance that two magnets could repel one another against gravity.


Al, what is this distance?


I don't remember, and I'm not going to do it again, but the comparison is where the energy product of N40-N42 came from, IIRC.

I'm sure it is in the posts somewhere.


N35-N38 IIRC, I'll try to find the reference Wink

@Harvey, sfandbv

Try the top post of the Lesson Learned thread.

.. Lessons Learned: http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?t=349 <- scroll down to Rotor Magnet Strength

Let me know if if you have anything to add.

Cheers Smile
Yada ...
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Sun May 18, 2008 9:33 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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alsetalokin wrote:
17,000.
Exactly.


(bada-BING!)

Mr. Green
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Sun May 18, 2008 9:36 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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alsetalokin wrote:
Of course I was just kidding, I have no idea what the strain energy is.
But you've got to admit, it was a perfect set-up...

I think we are not quite ready for the return of vaudeville, but almost.


What I remember most of vaudeville is most of the humor went out adore and innuendo. Wink
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Sun May 18, 2008 9:37 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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Harvey wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
17,000.
Exactly.


(bada-BING!)

Mr. Green

I had to convert to ft.lb before I realised how impossibly large 17000 joules was. I presume use of the Italian-American expression bada-BING was also a come on. Wink
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Sun May 18, 2008 9:45 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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It is also an onomotopoetic attempt at reproducing the sound of a "rimshot" which is a traditional way that a stage drummer might emphasize the "zinger" or one-liner of a (rather poor) stand-up comic. It is usually comprised of two quick beats on the snare or tom followed by a stroke of the high-hat or a small cymbal.

badump-PSHH! might also approximate the sound, but I like Bada-BING better.

Now, I rather thought this was a cultural universal, not restricted to this side of the pond, but perhaps I'm wrong.
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Sun May 18, 2008 10:43 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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"bada bing bada boom" :Used in sitcoms the world over for years. Denotes action with an expected and often satisfactory finality as opposed to the transisitional phrase 'yada yada yada'. In some cases they can be used together:

Throw 17 thousand joules in, give the stator a bacwards spin, things speed up, yada yada yada and bada bing bada boom, you've got a WhiPMag!

Mr. Green
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Sun May 18, 2008 11:51 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Yadaraf wrote:

@Harvey, sfandbv

Try the top post of the Lesson Learned thread.

.. Lessons Learned: http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?t=349 <- scroll down to Rotor Magnet Strength

Let me know if if you have anything to add.


Thanx Yada, I think I pulled that N38 out of my...um er.. thin air. I can't even find the results of Al's test now. Sad

When it doubt, check it out Very Happy
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Mon May 19, 2008 12:53 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Hm all that drag on al,s rotor! Still not sure what to think on this. Yet it seems to be helping the effect. It for sure is in my opinion of were the magnetic interaction can keep the agw effect going and or add to velocity.
Looking over method uded to get to were he is.
1: uses rotor and a single stator to find best dictate from rotor for agw effect. Luckly it is close enough to what he has already done.
2; adds other stators to system to aid in getting into AGW. After acceleration stopping these when in AGW it speeds up.
3; ads inductance devices that allows drag to rotor, the faster the more so.
So why does this work, and not the others.
One thing is the drag is timed. Placement of these items times the drag in relation to rotor position.

Folks getting AGW from replication may need to set up a controlled drag system in relation to rotor position.

Still not sure how to do this for folks replicating to were it can be controlled.
For folks with electrical knowledge It may be best to set up a pulsed to position system were strength can be controlled.

Finding one of the statments on this
"I think the dampers are working by keeping the bearing wobble down, and by providing a
gentle drag force that disappears when the parts are moving slowly. Eddy, Lenz, and all
those things.
Without the dampers the unit seems to speed up to instability, the stator chatters and
drops out, and the rotor coasts to a stop."

Bearing wobble is interesting in that due to such may be more to an uneven distribution of force. More sharp or to hammering etc. In looking at the AGW cycle (HSF vidios) this area of of drag due to the inductive dampeners is were the exchange of magnetic force to velocity happens.

Hmm more thought and possible study needs to be done at this point.

LOL The drag seems to be in normal view a counter productive thing. Remember it seems to be timed not a steady drag, at least on the inductive damner it is.
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Mon May 19, 2008 1:44 am PostPost subject:
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@ Lostcauses,

Your perceptions and thought processes are to be commended. In fact, there are no non-dynamic* forces present in this system. All of the constituents are recursively involved with each other. As Laurel so aptly stated 'I think there are just too many variables to solve this quickly'. Even the constants are not constants at all. Consider some of the contants:

Code:
1.Base.
     a. Its dimensions are not constant because they change with temperature.
     b. Its weight is only as constant as the terramass below it. Since magma moves, gravity changes and thus the weight of the base changes. Also moving the unit (like to a mountain top) can change its weight
     c. Mass. For the sake of these experiments it can be considered constant although it does change slightly due to decomposition.
     d. Electric charge. What have we learned from maxwell about moving magnetic fields? Dynamic
2. Rotor.
     a - c  same as the Base.
     d. Electrically coupled with base via spindle and capacitive cavity in between. Magnetic interaction limited to stator and earths field and any artificially produced EM nearby. Dynamic.
3. Spindle.
     a - c same as the Base and Rotor.
     d. provides electrical coupling between Base and Rotor. Has interactive eddy currents in bearings as they migrate relative to rotor and earths magnetic fields. Dynamic
4. Distance.
     a. Rotor Spindle to Stator Spindle distance. The screws distances are only as constant as the thermal expansion allow - as dimensions change, so do distances.
     b. Rotor magnet to stator magnet. We've all seen runout and wobble here. Flexible spindle mount
     c. Base to Rotor. Can fluctuate according to axial bearing play and downward air pressure.
     d. Base to Stator. Can fluctuate according to axial bearing play.
5. Magnetic Flux. Although we consider this to be a constant for each magnet at the magnet's surface, the field it produces is far from constant. Density can even change for different areas of the surface in real time. And the fields interaction with space-time itself is dynamic.

*this term was chosen over static to avoid confusion with static electricity.
Cool
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Mon May 19, 2008 2:28 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Harvey LOL I know what is said to be constant is not so constant.
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Mon May 19, 2008 6:17 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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alsetalokin wrote:
It is also an onomotopoetic attempt at reproducing the sound of a "rimshot" which is a traditional way that a stage drummer might emphasize the "zinger" or one-liner of a (rather poor) stand-up comic. It is usually comprised of two quick beats on the snare or tom followed by a stroke of the high-hat or a small cymbal.

badump-PSHH! might also approximate the sound, but I like Bada-BING better.

Now, I rather thought this was a cultural universal, not restricted to this side of the pond, but perhaps I'm wrong.

It may well be amongst my children's generation but my musical experience dates back to Bing Crosby and even he was considered rather racy. Rolling Eyes
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Mon May 19, 2008 6:29 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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Harvey wrote:
@ Lostcauses,

Your perceptions and thought processes are to be commended. In fact, there are no non-dynamic* forces present in this system. All of the constituents are recursively involved with each other. As Laurel so aptly stated 'I think there are just too many variables to solve this quickly'. Even the constants are not constants at all.
...

"The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook."

William James
(American philosopher and psychologist)
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Wed May 21, 2008 12:18 am PostPost subject:
Dirtfarmer
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By all verbal evidence, Al has NOT indicated that he is NOT powering the device in some way, correct?
Yes we "know" that it is not timed by hall sensors, or optically, but at no time does he unequivocally state that it is not "driven"..

Is this appreciated by those here or is that skimmed over?

I had thought one might achieve what was shown by rotating a magnet in proximity, although we see both of his hands as the motor speeds up, (although a treadle or such could be the potentiometer... (Far fetched, but it would seem that one could, in fact reproduce the videos to date.. which is what he has requested...

Of genuine interest to me is his claims of fantastically strong EMF in the room in which it had run... I can find no more information on this, and wonder the tone of that herring (Al or anyone?)...
Thanks in advance...
Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer
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Wed May 21, 2008 12:43 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Dirt farmer yes it could be faked. Would take on hall of an effort but could be done.

Yet study and replication of some of his claimed effects have been done. The one were it is self running, has not.

Yet some reports of events to go forward have. Yea we all be nuts to be following and trying to see this thing on a bunch of posts on the internet.

He has also said the video and effect is real. He also said it was a high probability it was due to stray emf or some other artifact.

Each person has his reasons to be looking at this. Mine simply is it is the most interesting thing with damn interesting effects (some replicated) I have seen in years. It is the first thing I could look at and laugh with my normal NO WAY IN HELL thing. Free energy, NO. A high possibility of magnets doing work for a bit, YES! And that yes after a lot of examination of what is been done and studied.

Yet can it all be fake?

Well yes it could be. Could it be from arftifact, some emf stray, well yes. LOL.
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Wed May 21, 2008 1:28 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Well, I was just thinking about Dirtfarmer.

The best way to address the issue of whether or not the device is powered in some way, is to build one that IS powered, and make it look like and do all the things that we know my device does.
Go ahead, I will be very interested to see what you come up with, Dirtfarmer.

As to the issue of the EM environment, I'm sure anybody would be quite startled by the readings on my Tri-Field meter in my kitchen work area. I wouldn't call them "fantastically strong" but certainly "startling" would be appropriate.

However, I think we have long ago ruled out any significant contribution of that environment to the performance of the device.
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Wed May 21, 2008 2:24 am PostPost subject:
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Dirtfarmer wrote:

I had thought one might achieve what was shown by rotating a magnet in proximity, although we see both of his hands as the motor speeds up, (although a treadle or such could be the potentiometer... (Far fetched, but it would seem that one could, in fact reproduce the videos to date.. which is what he has requested...


Hey Bud, how 'ya been?

You are absolutely correct that rotating magnets can be tied or tethered to another rotating magnet. This effect has been published on you-tube in various fashions. In one case some experimenters used a wheel off of an excercise bike and placed it nearby a spindle with magnets attached. In this case, the wheel was paramagnetic aluminum magnesium alloy. The experimenters were suprised that the rundown time increased when engaged with the magnets. (In fact, they were surprised the magnets interacted with the aluminum at all). Proof of the rundown times was never offered to the public and my private correspondance with them lead nowhere. As it turned out, they are just some surfer kids fooling around in the garage - but I still value their experiment. In another video a motor has magnets attached to its output shaft and many (over 10) rotating magnets are seen on upside down cups keeping time with the motor. These IIRC are AGW operated 90 axis shift (horizontal motor, vertical magnets). There are also about 8 videos from TracMag demonstrating rotating magnets being driven by his tractor. He is currently marketing the device for experimentors and educational purposes.

The difficulty in applying these concepts to the WhiPMag is that they don't work at all out of plane. i.e. when the unit is reoriented it loses sync with the driver and is almost impossible to resync without starting over.

A duplicate device under the display tables driving the rotor, which in turn could drive the stators could work and would easily resync provided the speed differential is not so large as to cause shearing. This would work very similarly to mrfixitricks sink science videos, only the magnets would be oriented in the whipmag order instead.

Then to power on the device would only require the assistance of an off screen helper like the camera man to turn on the two speeds of the motor. So...a two speed motor with remote switching and a top speed loaded of around 1250 and unloaded at around 2000 would be needed to replicate. The counter tops would have to be thin enough to allow connection between the N40 (or less) rotor magnets from the driver magnets. Most counter tops are about 3/4" thick min. So you need N58 (wag) magnets underneath. Embarassed they only come in N52 Crying or Very sad

All we can say is, its about as hard to fake as it is to duplicate. Either way its still a great puzzle Very Happy
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Wed May 21, 2008 3:13 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Those EM fields are no joke.
I heard today that Sen. Edward Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant glioma in the right parietal lobe.
Too early to know if it is glioblastoma or a less aggressive tumor, but in any case the prognosis is poor.
A very dear friend developed glioblastoma multiforme in 2002; in spite of the best care Western medicine and an arsenal of alternative traditions could provide, after 2 surgeries, she died about 5 months after receiving her diagnosis.
She spent a lot of time on cell phones, from the very beginning of their availability. She would conduct hour-long psychotherapy sessions several times a day for her patients who could not or would not come to her office--all on cell phones.

I don't own a cell phone.

(EDIT: I see that the news is saying the LEFT parietal. )
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:04 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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alsetalokin wrote:
Those EM fields are no joke.
I heard today that Sen. Edward Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant glioma in the right parietal lobe.....

Was he right handed I wonder? Rolling Eyes

I agree, these EM fields are no joke. My grandfather, Oscar Bokaert, was one of the first doctors to use X-rays in his practice. He died of leukemia in 1909 at the age of 40.

I'm glad I'm not an experimentalist. The only danger I'm at risk of succumbing to is the manic side of bi-polarism. Wink
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:09 am PostPost subject:
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I'm here... (had been talking to my brother in law, (landline-...phew?)

I'll have to consider that, Harvey... It would seem that higher frequencies may exhibit less (magnetic)drag in a situation, (temporally equalling out) , so that , the drive is more evident than the drag, (evident, not "present" ...perhaps as in the case with "similar" movement))
... Again I may have to think about that one... Al, with your concern about EM radiation, I presume that you have located it's source within your kitchen? (Not meaning to be rude or OVERLY presumptious... pardon me...)
can you tell us, ...is it associated (for instance) with the "apparatus"?

...
Wow,, did I leave a woman's veil around here?)

Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:20 am PostPost subject:
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Harvey wrote:


Hey Bud, how 'ya been?


On the personal side, , not great, unfortunately, not death, nor total catastrophe, Great to speak to you all (both)...
Al, I WILL keep my wild extrapolations as far as possible from discussion, (It IS appropriate...)
( *Drunkeness loses credibility..*, *Drunkeness loses credibility..* ,*Drunkeness loses credibility..*,*Drunkeness loses credibility..*,*Drunkeness loses credibility..*...(as does such an awkward phrase..)
Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:31 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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alsetalokin wrote:
Those EM fields are no joke.
I heard today that Sen. Edward Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant glioma in the right parietal lobe.
Too early to know if it is glioblastoma or a less aggressive tumor, but in any case the prognosis is poor.
A very dear friend developed glioblastoma multiforme in 2002; in spite of the best care Western medicine and an arsenal of alternative traditions could provide, after 2 surgeries, she died about 5 months after receiving her diagnosis.
She spent a lot of time on cell phones, from the very beginning of their availability. She would conduct hour-long psychotherapy sessions several times a day for her patients who could not or would not come to her office--all on cell phones.

I don't own a cell phone.


Since microwaves span from 300MHz and up...and cell phones operate in the 800MHz range...I wonder if the problem isn't so much the EM effect on the tissue as it is the cells just get slow cooked. If Dr. Springer was correct, it takes frequencies near 5GHz to spawn cancer.

Either way, I prefer to use a headset most of the time & place my cell phone on the desk or in a console about 2 feet away. Wink
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:35 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Ahh, that's the Dirtfarmer we remember. That first post had me wondering--but now I'm sure.
No, the fields in my kitchen seem to be coming from the house's power distribution panel which is in the wall right above my improvised workbench.
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:42 am PostPost subject:
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alsetalokin wrote:
Ahh, that's the Dirtfarmer we remember. That first post had me wondering--but now I'm sure.
No, the fields in my kitchen seem to be coming from the house's power distribution panel which is in the wall right above my improvised workbench.


Whew! I was worried some of those MIB's had bugged your basement and the Tri-meter was picking up the transmissions.

(jk) I wonder if the electric eel in the aquarium has an EM field... Confused
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Wed May 21, 2008 4:47 am PostPost subject:
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You know, now that you mention it, the MIBs have been especially conspicuous in their absence. So, taking that as a data point, we can immediately generate at least two hypotheses:


They Don't Exist, or


They are Smarter than they Look.

Mr. Green
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Wed May 21, 2008 5:26 am PostPost subject:
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Now that we have some more accurate and detailed high-speed images, I wonder if there's anyone interested in doing another simulation. Yirkha did some pretty good Visimag stuff based mostly on guesswork. I'm still wondering what some high-end 3D simulations might be able to tell us?

OC
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Wed May 21, 2008 6:01 am PostPost subject:
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overconfident wrote:
Now that we have some more accurate and detailed high-speed images, I wonder if there's anyone interested in doing another simulation. Yirkha did some pretty good Visimag stuff based mostly on guesswork. I'm still wondering what some high-end 3D simulations might be able to tell us?

OC


Whoa...to much tea - I'm seeing double posts Shocked

(jk)

I was actually thinking the same thing. I have visimag as well, but Yirkha already has the program to generate the scripts. Specifically, I was thinking of pulling the force tables out and comparing them with Korkscrews tables. I was also thinking of reprogramming his Java to do a 180 Snap simulation. The problem with these is that they do not have inertial variables and they are not 3D.

I've started a topic in the physics thread for Rotational Phyisics if any are interested. I intend to focus there on why Al observed reduced drag inversely proportional to increased speed. In the mean time I am going to get started on those tach readings Al posted for demo_2.amv Wink

Also, I think Cloud Campers work will provide a huge boost into the latching specifics and help validate your theories. Very Happy

Cheers
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Wed May 21, 2008 6:20 am PostPost subject:
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alsetalokin wrote:
You know, now that you mention it, the MIBs have been especially conspicuous in their absence. So, taking that as a data point, we can immediately generate at least two hypotheses:


They Don't Exist, or


They are Smarter than they Look.

Mr. Green


Because they "have been especially conspicuous" we must exclude the first hypothesis. Also, since they are in "absence" then logically we must conclude they could be in presence at another time or place. Again we must exclude the first hypothesis.

So that leaves us with "They are Smarter than they Look.".

However, if this is true - then they no doubt have disguised their looks to appear as smart as they are - this way we would not suspect them. Consequently we may form an ammendment to the second: "They are Smarter than the Looked".

Proceeding under these deductions, we must then conclude that they are succeding in their task. Since their funding is provided in part by large oil conglomerates we must deduce also that part of their task is to preoccupy the more probable minds of the populace with time consuming things that direct away from real possible solutions to alternative energy. This leads us to one inevitable conclusion.

We are the Men In Black. Shocked
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Wed May 21, 2008 1:45 pm PostPost subject:
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How very Pogo-ish...

It's certainly hard to argue with logic like that...
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