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Question for Alsetalokin

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:55 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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OC,

He also played with variations of a smaller version prior,
He has built and messed with some version of supposed magnet motors, and most of all has had to replicate other strange things across the years.

I did not give much thought to timing, in other words how much overlap of action between each magnet and stator to the others acting upon it.

When I did it is easy to see the spacing of such is a ratio of the rotor diameter to magnet length, or more exact the distance across the flats of the eight sided lay out.

Al is a great tech. It may be just an arbitrary figure for them measurements on the rotor, yet it tends to go against his ability's, LOL

I am hoping he will let us know. I have reread all the posts leading up to all of this, and more.

I do not find were this was asked before, though in the last year I am sure some one did. I just don,t find it.

LOL You know how many volumes of books all the threads on this stuff could make??
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:13 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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lostcauses wrote:
OC,

He also played with variations of a smaller version prior


I was there.

lostcauses wrote:

I did not give much thought to timing, in other words how much overlap of action between each magnet and stator to the others acting upon it.

When I did it is easy to see the spacing of such is a ratio of the rotor diameter to magnet length, or more exact the distance across the flats of the eight sided lay out.


My initial considerations were for the interactions between one rotor magnet and one stator magnet, with additional thoughts concerning the previous and next stators. I was trying to determine how to get all the stators oriented so the majority would be acting to provide a simultaneous push/pull with positive torque, like in my dream, and how to minimize resistance when passing through the "sticky spot".

lostcauses wrote:

LOL You know how many volumes of books all the threads on this stuff could make??


If the Steorn forum or this one vanish, there will be a lot fewer volumes.
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:18 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Let's see--the whole thing was a combination of luck and experimentation.
My tooling won't handle material larger than a certain size; I think the final rotor size was determined by this, in addition to the scraps I had available at the time. (This is why the rotor magnet slots wound up leaving the "airfoil" shape behind--my milling setup couldn't carry the slots all the way through the material to the other edge, without running into the mill column, etc. so I just went as far as I could...)
This is also why I haven't built OC's original design--when it was determined that, for our magnet strengths, the rotor would have to be 18" in diameter, that pretty well scotched it for me. I would have to buy the material and make special jigs to be able to accurately work a piece that big, and some operations I just couldn't do nohow noway on a workpiece that big.
So yes, my rotor is somewhat arbitrarily sized, due to limitations of my tooling and my pocketbook.
However, I think that OC's original design has far more going for it than my little whimpmag, and I hope that somebody with a bigger tool ( Embarassed ) can make the 18 inch version with latches.
Have to leave that big stuff to MADPROF!!
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:32 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Al Understood. Talk about luck, LOL I had to ask.
As for your device it shows a potential for showing an very interesting effect. it shows an unbalance that cases and equalization by a gain in velocity of the parts until it can not do it any more.

It is an interesting magnetic pendulum ( mass in motion to magnetic push pull). From what you have said about this thing, to be blunt for a time period their is a gain. To say one could do much with it, who knows. Perpetual energy, no. An unbalance of forces, yes. The set up you have, it gains, or stops. of course the higher the RPM, the less the force is.

Take your device and think of the rotor as stationary. and a rotor on the outside holding them idlers, stator, MKJD, LOL not even sure it could be done, (torque to drive should be back directed to the center of them devices to cause a drive) Yet if could be a rail drive could be made by such. Have you given that some thought??
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:03 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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LC, here is the thing to look at:
OC previously posted a diagram of the force vectors as the rotor magnet transitions into and out of the stator field during AGW.

The key ingredient there is the angular difference in retreat vs. approach if the phase is not centered (i.e. the equators align). The high speed videos show this to be the case most of the time (a phase delay on the stator). That differential changes the force applied to the rotor and allows it to push off the backside of the stator.

Hope that helps in your analysis.

I still think those little stator housings I designed would prove useful. Maybe when the dust clears I can slip Madprof an order for a few Mr. Green

WhiPMag Gallery

Cool


Last edited by Harvey on Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:13 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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I think this is the diagram Harvey is referring to, but it was for GW sync with latches and all 13 stators.

http://www.ospmm.org/whipmag/oc/OC13Frame1.gif
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:15 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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The one I was thinking of was posted on photobucket or something. It showed a single stator and rotor magnet with force vector arrows at the different positions.
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:33 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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A lot of the early photos of stuff are gone.

What I was looking at with Al,s if if he had taken the timing into account when making rotor. LOL he was again with luck.

I would now ask to have a caliper made to go over the rotor shaft and do some actual angle measurement, but Al is busy and most likely bored of all our questions. LOL I suspect the measurements he has given us will work. Ahh them magic rotor magnets. LOL
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:41 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Ok, I found the stuff:

OC asked me here:
http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?p=3686#3686

If I saw the post here:
http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?p=3679#3679

To which I responded here:
http://www.fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?p=3700#3700

To this picture:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn222/whipmag/OC/ForceVectors.gif

Cheers,

Cool
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:05 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Thanks, Harvey. Must be the onset of senility. I completely forgot about that diagram.
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:54 am PostPost subject: Where is the original Whipmag?
ohcta
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Hello All,

I am new to this forum. It appears that research has gone on away from the original Whipmag shown in the videos that have now become so famous. What has become of this unit? Is it still being tested?

Ohcta
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:16 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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ohcta
No full replications have been reported yet. Folks are still trying.
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:03 am PostPost subject: Where is the original Whipmag?
ohcta
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[quote="lostcauses"]ohcta
No full replications have been reported yet. Folks are still trying.[/quote]

Ok. So no successful replications. How about the original shown in the videos? Is testing still being done on it? Has it been dismantled and used for parts of an updated design or is it intact? Can additional testing be done on it?
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:18 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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@ohcta,

The original was purportedly safely stored away while its creator was on a 'tour of duty'. Upon returning he has been bombarded with other tasks related to his employment that consume much of his time. He is still active here as time permits.
It will be some time before he can resume testing.

Hopefully, by then, others will have close replications dubbed WhiPMag II for comparison testing.

Other replications and mock-ups have confirmed some of the phenomenon demonstrated. However, acceleration and sustained operation as shown, have not been achieved.

Welcome aboard.

Cool
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Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:54 am PostPost subject:
ohcta
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[quote="Harvey"]@ohcta,

Hopefully, by then, others will have close replications dubbed WhiPMag II for comparison testing.

Other replications and mock-ups have confirmed some of the phenomenon demonstrated. However, acceleration and sustained operation as shown, have not been achieved.

Welcome aboard.

8)[/quote]

Wow... that's too bad. It seems that many people are spinning their wheels making replications that don't work. I have personally viewed this for many, many months since the original videos were made. These replica units should 'work' due to the fact that fairly detailed instructions were given regarding how to make the unit. For some reason they do not. It seems there is only 1 true working unit.

As such, the outcome of the original Whipmag which is 'purportedly safely stored away' = 'Missing In Action' to myself. I also have concerns that someone involved in a 'tour of duty' should not involve others to continue his work in his absence for such an item as important as Whipmag. Hopefully this will change.
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Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:40 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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@ohcta,

There is much to read on these forums and it certainly is not concise. These two posts have added even more for others to read through. If you found a gold vein in your back yard and shared it with all your neighbors would you have any responsibilty toward them? If they demanded that you dig it up, smelt it and then hand them the refined bricks, would you? Would there be a limit to how many questions you could answer as to its exact location and what is needed to extract it? What if no one else could see it but you? Would you deed the land away for others to experiment with? If you had to leave, for any reason - personal or otherwise, how would you treat your find?

What if Al's discovery is a matter of National importance, which nation is entitled to the technology. USA or Canada? Or perhaps UK, after all, the UK has created the most accurate replication to date.

I guess what your really asking yourself is: "Does Alsetalokin want others to create a self running duplicate of his assembly? And if not, why not? And if so, what are his obligations if any?"

He has repeatedly declared that permanent magnet perpetual motion machines cannot possibly work. Or something to that effect. In fact, his involvement with the OC MPMM was an effort to demonstrate with reality why OC's dream couldn't work. But for some reason it sort of backfired on him. And if I read the posts correctly, the public video on you-tube was intended to squelch the heckling of a poster who was implying the dialog between him and OC was for some ulterior motive rather than a chronology of actual events.

If I were to guess, I would suspect that Al would not have disclosed the matter in the way he did and probably would have had it developed privately instead. But once the cattail has been released you'll never get the seeds back where they came from.

That being said, there is a big difference between MIA and stored away. And Al has already offered to resume some tests after things settle down at work.

How important is the WhiPMag? No one yet knows. It may just prove to be nothing more than a moon circling a planet. Once put in motion it just stays in motion. If so, then so much for getting useful energy out of it. Of course the moon does move a heck of a lot of water twice a day...maybe it is important. Shocked

So what do you think? Is a magnet some sort of gateway to the zero point universe?

Cool
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:00 am PostPost subject:
ohcta
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[quote="Harvey"]@ohcta,

So what do you think? Is a magnet some sort of gateway to the zero point universe?

8)[/quote]

I don't consider it any kind of gateway to zero point energy... it is most likely something we have been searching for in magnetic applications... a way to make them perpetually attract and not stick. Think of it like a satellite perpetually falling toward the earth in an stable orbit. We have thousands of objects doing this around the earth everyday. Finally we have something on earth that does the same thing!

Enlarged in size i believe the design could easily be used to perpetually drive an electrical generator.

PS: I have other theories on zero point that have nothing to do with magnets.
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:50 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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ohcta wrote:
Harvey wrote:
@ohcta,

So what do you think? Is a magnet some sort of gateway to the zero point universe?

Cool


I don't consider it any kind of gateway to zero point energy... it is most likely something we have been searching for in magnetic applications... a way to make them perpetually attract and not stick. Think of it like a satellite perpetually falling toward the earth in an stable orbit. We have thousands of objects doing this around the earth everyday. Finally we have something on earth that does the same thing!

Enlarged in size i believe the design could easily be used to perpetually drive an electrical generator.

PS: I have other theories on zero point that have nothing to do with magnets.


Funny how we can easily create electrical differentials and use it as a power source but when we do that with magnetic differentials we seem to be at a loss how as to how to apply it to motion.

I'm sure you're correct that one day we will be able to use either equally as well. Wink
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Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:22 am PostPost subject:
ohcta
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Harvey,

Is anyone making full replicas of the original Whipmag that can be purchased?

[quote="Harvey"][quote="ohcta"][quote="Harvey"] @ohcta,

So what do you think? Is a magnet some sort of gateway to the zero point universe?

8)[/quote]

I don't consider it any kind of gateway to zero point energy... it is most likely something we have been searching for in magnetic applications... a way to make them perpetually attract and not stick. Think of it like a satellite perpetually falling toward the earth in an stable orbit. We have thousands of objects doing this around the earth everyday. Finally we have something on earth that does the same thing!

Enlarged in size i believe the design could easily be used to perpetually drive an electrical generator.

PS: I have other theories on zero point that have nothing to do with magnets.[/quote]

Funny how we can easily create electrical differentials and use it as a power source but when we do that with magnetic differentials we seem to be at a loss how as to how to apply it to motion.

I'm sure you're correct that one day we will be able to use either equally as well. :wink:[/quote]
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Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:36 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Hmmm, why don't your quote lines work?

I have not heard of any salable product.

However, Madprof has done a wonderful job on the replicas he has produced thus far. Especially the amazing work he has done on the spindles. You would have to ask him what his future plans are with those designs.

Cool
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