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Now that's just silly

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Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:49 pm PostPost subject:
Pageygeeza
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So it'd probably be better for me to say "sod it" and just post my full idea here, (because it would have propably been done.) I've already noticed one of my ideas had been patented before. lol
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Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:07 pm PostPost subject:
JoinTheFun
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munchausen wrote:
The real question is:

Is it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for anynoe to replicate the whipmag?

No, but it's easier for a thick rope...
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Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:15 am PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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"Is it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for anyone to replicate the whipmag?"

Nah: It is just as any improbability drive, you got to get it to the improbability point to work!
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Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:10 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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See what I mean about mindsets influencing experiments?
Everyone is focussed on the Camel, but what about thinking of the needle?

Free your mind, and the rest will follow...
.
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Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:34 pm PostPost subject:
JoinTheFun
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Get through the needle and your sweet raisins lie awaiting.
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:14 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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I think the needle has to be made like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4jBUwH-TfqQ

Then it'll fit. Smile

BTW - Good Morning Saturday. For those that are interested, my Son was unfazed by the Earthquake that hit Sendai Saturday morning although he was 60 miles from the epicenter. Very Happy
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:42 pm PostPost subject:
billgates
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Harvey wrote:
I think the needle has to be made like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4jBUwH-TfqQ

Then it'll fit. Smile


This is also appropriate: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/661540
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Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:05 pm PostPost subject:
JoinTheFun
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LOL, excellent !
I doubt however that a camel can pass through there.
Unless it's one of these :
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_(cigarette)[/url]
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Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:27 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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JoinTheFun wrote:
LOL, excellent !
I doubt however that a camel can pass through there.
Unless it's one of these :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_%28cigarette%29


Clickable Wink
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:11 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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I was playing around with a Chinese copy of the hovering top toy together with a magnetic strip from an old fridge and I found rather an interesting effect.

When the top is given a right-handed spin, i.e. clockwise from above, and brought up to the strip on a flat table top it travels steadily along parallel to the metre long strip in the direction into the diagram.

If we take the strip as a rack say and the top as a pinion then we can regard the rotation as AGW.

It took me a little while to see why the top didn't just move up to the strip and stick there.

I wonder if anyone else can see the reason for this behaviour.

I also wonder if the reason for the AGW behaviour might cast any light on the behaviour of the WhipMag.
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:52 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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fleX strip magnets are usually magnetized with multiple poles such as NS NS NS NS etc.
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Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:34 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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@Frank,

Unfortunatly your diagram does not show direction. But we can do some extrapolation here.

Just to clarify some points: "up to the strip", does this imply vertical movement as in UP or Down? Or does it imply a moving 'over' to the strip?

Does the N ball of the top come in contact with the table or strip, or is it in its hover action?

Working on the premise that the top is spun contacting the table and the N ball of the top is attracted to the S strip we see it migrate across the table and contact the strip expecting friction to drive it in the opposite direction away from the contact point. In your drawing we would expect the top to move left toward the strip and then after contacting it move toward the observer, a GW action. Of course this implies that the top is not tilted in any way and that the clearance of its underside is sufficient to avoid the top of the strip at all times.

But we must evaluate as well that the strip is not a lone 1 meter bar magnet with different poles at each end. Nor is it a long layered magnet with north on one side and south on the other. Instead, it is just as lostcauses states, a repeating pattern of North and South like hundreds of tiny bar magnets attached in a meter long stack. So then, how will the top react when North touches North? The bottom of the toy will push away from the strip and could cause it to tilt. If the underside contacts the strip then we have a lateral friction at the contact point that can do a host of things. One of the most obvious is the introduction of a new pivot point. Of course the table friction and the contact friction have a ratio of coefficients that govern the next actions. Like my bowl in the ball experiments. I sprayed some 'Pam' in the bowl and the ball just stopped and spun in one place all because of a loss of friction.

But what is really happening in your case? The upper pole (S) of the top is tilted away from the strip and the toy spins on the outside contact of the ball propeling it away from the observer. Wink
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Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:11 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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@ Harvey

Yep. Your last sentence seems to have it bang to rights. Idea Very Happy

The strip is as described because the magnet travels up it in one direction and down it in the other. Also I have checked the strip with a compass needle. It is south south all the way along the edges.

If you slide the strip towards the spinning top which is spinning in a large orbit then the strip doesn't actually need to touch the top for the top to start travelling smoothly along the strip at one ball diameter away from the strip.

The essential point is the slight tilt of the top away from the strip as you correctly divine in your sentence:

"The upper pole (S) of the top is tilted away from the strip and the toy spins on the outside contact of the ball propelling it away from the observer."

You're not just a pretty face, then. Wink

What I found interesting was the stability of the whole arrangement as the top slowed down.

Presumably if one formed the strip into a large circle rotor and rotated the circle the top would still perform in the same manner.

I suppose what I am trying to say is it is the movement of the top relative to the table which is important, not the movement of the top relative to the strip as one might easily, but incorrectly, imagine.

If one spun the top on ice then I suppose it would not be able to orbit and would spin in one position.
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Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:33 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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lostcauses wrote:
fleX strip magnets are usually magnetized with multiple poles such as NS NS NS NS etc.




Your post made me curious so I thought I would take another look at the strips. Sure enough it would seem they are little vertical magnets along the edge. This was confirmed by putting them back to back.

Interestingly enough when I turned the strip over the top moved along it in the same fashion. Confused

The top is a much more powerful magnet than the strip. Maybe it overwhelms the strip magnet and induces a south pole overall.
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Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:00 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Put the strip in a good plastic bag and shake some iron fillings on it. It really shows up the strips in em.

Oh don't try that with neos, to strong and can tear them bags, unless you have some really heavy ones: Then you have them fillings were you don't want them. LOL
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Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:22 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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The strip magnetization is very evident if you slide two pieces of the material against each other. In the proper orientation the strips produce a very pronounced cogging effect, and with one piece at 90 degrees to this orientation, no cogging at all, but reinforcement or cancellation of the magnetic fields. I have used this effect (in 1999 or 2000 IIRC) to make a "switchable" PM arrangement, that I described in detail somewhere in this site.
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Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:43 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Just ran across something on overunity.com that caught my eye:
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/8901/device1st5.gif

My initial reaction was "Huh?". But then I started thinking about it a bit. A WhipMag could feasibly be modified to do something very similar and operate in GW/AGW modes simultaneously.

Here's the thread discussing the idea:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5322.0.html

I doubt there would be any antigravity efects as claimed, but it might be interesting to see just what does happen.
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Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:10 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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I saw behavior like that on the fully-filled even-numbered stator baseplates that I experimented with early on, before the 13x variant. But there was so much drag from turning all those stators that the rotor rundowns were very short, and I didn't see the significance or possibility of a stator synching AGW with the rotor--I thought all I was seeing was ordinary magnetic gearing between the stators.
Isn't it interesting how the same ideas keep coming up over and over?
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Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:17 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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alsetalokin wrote:
I saw behavior like that on the fully-filled even-numbered stator baseplates that I experimented with early on, before the 13x variant. But there was so much drag from turning all those stators that the rotor rundowns were very short, and I didn't see the significance or possibility of a stator synching AGW with the rotor--I thought all I was seeing was ordinary magnetic gearing between the stators.
Isn't it interesting how the same ideas keep coming up over and over?


I was thinking this might actually be possible with a pentagonal configuration of stator pairs where each closely spaced pair is separated by a significantly greater distance between pairs. The magnetic dynamics of counterrotating pairs interacting with the opposed rotor magnets would be pretty complex. I haven't been able to visualize the fields yet.
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Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:01 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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FYI:

In some of my tests with my portable stator I did find a particularly sweet location near another stator, trailing from rotor direction and slightly farther away from the rotor than the stator. This spot would generate GW/AGW freely when the rotor was turned and was generally well tuned (approximately the same drag as just a single stator).

Apart from easily producing AGW I could find no other beneficial effect, although it certainly was not any exhaustive test or research.

Neutral
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Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:56 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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For anyone who might be interested, I bought some ferrofluid in hopes it might help visualize the complex fields at the event horizon. Unless someone can think of a better way to use this stuff, don't bother. It is even less effective than iron filings.

I poured some ferrofluid into a petri dish and set it on my rotor. All it does is collect at the poles of the magnets making strange little mounds of dark stuff over each pole. The field we want to see and understand is out far from the poles of the physical magnets and is too weak to show anything of interest.

I wasn't really expecting much, but thought I would give it a try anyway. Sigh.

OC
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Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:59 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Thanks for trying OC.
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Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:31 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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overconfident wrote:
For anyone who might be interested, I bought some ferrofluid in hopes it might help visualize the complex fields at the event horizon. Unless someone can think of a better way to use this stuff, don't bother. It is even less effective than iron filings.

I poured some ferrofluid into a petri dish and set it on my rotor. All it does is collect at the poles of the magnets making strange little mounds of dark stuff over each pole. The field we want to see and understand is out far from the poles of the physical magnets and is too weak to show anything of interest.

I wasn't really expecting much, but thought I would give it a try anyway. Sigh.

OC


I had considered this myself but quickly realized after watching other videos that the ferrofluid itself is reactive resulting in density slopes giving the false impression that magnetic forces have lines that the fluid peaks around. The fluid is useful as a topographical representation of density in 3d as long as one realizes that the gaps between the peaks are the result of reactive force fromt the ferrofluid itself. The angle of the peaks represent the diminshing density. The vector of the peaks are useful in showing in 3D the B vector of the magnet under test as they point in that direction.

A passive detector for 3D magnetic fields is yet to be developed. Neutral
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Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:05 pm PostPost subject:
lostcauses
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Yep Looks like I am going to have to go with the oil and iron filings in a bottle or plate.
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