top

Alsetalokin, help me help you

Post new topic Reply to topic FizzX.org Forum Index | WhipMag Discussion/Development    Page 1 of 1

Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:08 pm PostPost subject: Alsetalokin, help me help you
munchausen
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 54

Reply with quote

@alsetalokin, like a conspicuous majority of posts in this forum.

I am trying to understand you, I really am. I have literally read all the posts youíve authored regarding the Whipmag in the various online forums. I have never entertained a discouraging wish for you or your mother Very Happy and I eschew the company of those who do.

And yet, we all witness the quandary in which you find yourself: impatience, frustration, negative comments, insults, profanity, and in some cases maybe even threats of physical violence directed at you.

And believe me, nobody wants to see it this way.

Letís forget who is responsible at this point and focus on how we can change that.

Al, what do you want?

1. If you want us to leave you alone, there is a simple solution. Stop posting. Obviously, I think this is one of the worst possible scenarios and Iím pretty sure this isnít what you want. After all, you have been keeping up with the developments on this forum. You probably think you want it all to go away when people get hostile, but deep down, I donít think thatís the case.

2. If you want more money, you will need to budget for it or ask for help. Again, I donít think this is what you want, but I could be wrong.

3. If you want more time, again, this is a budgeting issue. Stop playing Rockband so much. Sure, you want to play all the songs on expert but is that expedient? Wait, thatís my problem, but you get the point.

4. If you want something else thatís tangible, all you have to do is ask: materials, tools, etc. We can get stuff to you if you need/want it, but you havenít mentioned much, besides that snazzy strobe camera, and this:

alsetalokin wrote:
I need a drink too, but not soda.


Now it is my personal belief that this is meant to confuse people into thinking you drink alcohol. But I think you arenít much of a drinker. You seem like too much of a tightly-wound perfectionist to risk losing your inhibitions. I could be wrong; let me know. Not that itís a bad thing, honestly. I am a tightly-wound control freak, and that keeps me sober.

But if you really wanted a drink, Iím sure someone here could figure out how to get an international alcoholic care package to you.

5. If you want someone to replicate this device, and witness the elusive effect, you really need to throw us a bone. Think about the hours of work and dollars allocated to this project, by yourself and others (but not by me. Iím an observer, who has only taken apart a hard drive in anticipation of making a replica). If they havenít figured it out by now, they need more. Here are a few areas that could use some illumination:

alsetalokin wrote:
Mr.Entropy wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
I have said before, if you can get AGW lock at around 1250 rotor, 5000 stator RPM, with whatever magnets you are using, you should be able, easily, to reproduce everything I have seen. If only you could free yourselves of your preconceptions and pet theories.

But Clanzer has done this, has he not? And he did not see any acceleration.

And others have done this too, and not seen any acceleration. Why? Because all those "replicators" were trying to make a free energy device, a MPMM, from permanent magnets. This is, of course, impossible.
Not a single "replicator" that I know of, has actually tried to replicate exactly what was shown in the video.
Everybody has tried to "replicate" what they wanted to see, which is a free energy device.

What exactly are you saying here? What was ďshown in the videoĒ? Iím not trying to be rude here. Again Iím simply trying to understand what you mean. You make it sound as though oneís conceptual framework is affecting his experiment. I agree to a point but there should be more evidence of exactly how the OU concept has affected the process, and weíve seen the plans and pieces of a few of these replications. Some replicas are spitting images of the real thing. And in the cases that the replicas arenít exact, I would attribute the differences to materials sourcing problems and budget constraints rather than the fact that experimenter is looking for OU . . . . . that is unless, of course, that you can actually see a design flaw or omitted procedure in the process. If that is the case, please let us know. We canít see it. We are blind. What are we missing? What have we added?

alsetalokin wrote:
If only you could free yourselves of your preconceptions and pet theories.

Will preconceptions ruin the experiment? You started this experiment to prove that OCís design wouldnít work . . . and you witnessed the effect. Others began the experiment to see the effect . . . success eludes them. Should they start with the mindset of proving OC wrong? Should they repeat ďthere is no spoonĒ a few times to Ďfree their mindsí? (just a joke, not intended as an insult)

alsetalokin wrote:
Obviously, I want to keep my magnets. I think there is considerable variation in some property of these magnets, as only some of my 15 stator magnets seem to produce the effect. So I don't want to let them out of my possession.

I think we would all agree with you on this point. Would you consider sending one functioning stator magnet to OC with the Whipmag? Have you removed or replaced any of the rotor magnets? Do you think there is considerable variation in any of those? Are you studying the variation?

6. If you want more people to trust you before you reveal this as a h*ax (I canít even say it). You need to stop. Please.

7. It is my belief that you want more time and money to study the variations but are also hoping people can make working replicas so less of the focus is on you. However, you are too proud to ask for help, and you fear upsetting people and losing your job, partly because you think there is a simple explanation for the effect which has up to this point eluded you. But, you are hedging your bets by not just gifting your creation to OC because in the rare event that this is a new discovery, you donít exactly hate the idea of making a considerable profit for your serendipitous project. If that is the case, you have a few options: enlist the help of a friend whom you trust, take some precautions to protect yourself (hit the patent office, and just start patenting stuff, anything about your experiment that you can), and most importantly, let us know. No one is going to hate you for saying: ďIíd love to help, but Iím trying to get a patent so please bear with me for a few months.Ē And if they hate you for it, they probably hated you already, right?


So to sum it all up, alsetalokin: What do you want? What do you need?

Please let us know. Help us help you.


Last edited by munchausen on Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:52 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 1121

Reply with quote

I gotta admit, this is a different approach.

I hope Al hasn't already vanished for another month.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:42 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

Well, munchausen, thanks for your consideration and the various points. I'll try to address them in order.

1. Do I want to be left alone? Ultimately, yes, and that's what will happen. Each of us dies alone, ultimately. But I do want to be helpful--when people think they need to pay big bucks for fancy bearings, I just have to jump in. Actually I figured that, now that people have some experience with magnets, bearings, and rotors etc, that they would be even more skeptical, and angry, about Steorn's claim. I do resent the insults and hostility, especially when there are SO MANY posters claiming impossible OU devices and even selling them or making money off advertising them.

2. Do I want more money? Sure. But I won't take it for anything related to projects like this, as it would be a real conflict of interest for me. I do have a nice Curta calculator for sale, though. (Not the black Type II, yet. Sorry. But a nice later Type II, grey.)

3. Time is always an issue. Mine has just about run out. There are a couple things I do want to accomplish before the noise stops. Sure, I waste a lot of time on computers. It's a rough and smoky job, but somebody has to do it.

4. There isn't anything I need that I will be able to get over the internet. Sorry. I do drink, always in moderation. My doctor says I need 1 to 2 ounces of alcohol daily, so as soon as I get home from work, I take one ounce of Ukrainian vodka, and another before bed. I used to enjoy good California microbrews but they don't understand beer very well here in Canada so I haven't had a beer in months. I eschew drunkeness.

5. There's a lot there. But basically, yes, preconceptions can ruin an experimental program. Confirmation bias, availability heuristics, demand characteristics, data selection, and so forth can cause an experimenter to misinterpret or overinterpret results, design experiments that cannot falsify theory, and resort to hand-waving when an experiment doesn't work as planned. One can find textbook examples of all these in the "whipmag" pages. And more. You aren't blind, but like a horse with blinders on, you can only see in one direction. ("You" used generically here.)
And yes, I have studied the variations. Some. I do have other things to do, believe it or not.

6. I don't want anybody to trust me. I want them to STOP trusting Steorn, overunity.com, stefan hartmann, r.stiffler, thane heinz, magnacoaster, perendev/brady, etc. I want them to START trusting scientists who really do physics and who understand thermodynamics. Et cetera. And all the definitions of "h*ax" that I can find don't quite seem to apply in this case, in stark contrast to, for example, many of the above-mentioned names.

7. Seven appears totally based on the premise that the OC MPMM that I have shown is somehow FE/OU. But it isn't. So those points seem moot to me.

So to sum it all up, munchausen I don't want anything from you, or anybody on these forums, except rational and critical thinking. What I need, mostly, is a good dog, a good walking stick, a fine pipe, and a big open field to walk in until dusk. Like Grey Whale Ranch at UCSC, and my Bear dog. Those days are long gone and won't be returning.

But the dusk is here, and the night falls all too soon. I am far beyond any help that you could conceivably give me.

But thanks anyway.
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:31 am PostPost subject:
Axle
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 195

Reply with quote

Wow..hmmm..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:07 pm PostPost subject: help me help you take 2
munchausen
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 54

Reply with quote

You are welcome for the consideration, and I thank you for yours. I am just trying to assuage this breakdown in communication and courtesy.

Please allow me to briefly address your responses:

1.
alsetalokin wrote:
Do I want to be left alone? Ultimately, yes, . . . But I do want to be helpful . . .

Good, and for the record, I think you *are* being helpful. I think others want you to more helpful and I think you know this. I think your definition of helpful is different than theirs, but I donít want to get into it.

alsetalokin wrote:
I do resent the insults and hostility . . .

I want to address this later.

2.
alsetalokin wrote:
Do I want more money? Sure. But I won't take it for anything related to projects like this . . .

Good. Btw- What does your boss/benefactor/company think about the whipmag? Has he seen the posts?

3.
alsetalokin wrote:
Time is always an issue. Mine has just about run out . . . I waste a lot of time on computers . . . but somebody has to do it.

Is your time short because of health issues or old age? You didnít sound very old in your video. Idea Outsource your computer time to me and I will outsource my whipmag replication time to you. Deal?

4.
alsetalokin wrote:
There isn't anything I need that I will be able to get over the internet. . . . I do drink, always in moderation. . . . I eschew drunkeness.

Well, I guess I wasnít that far off.

5.
alsetalokin wrote:
. . . basically, yes, preconceptions can ruin an experimental program. . . . And yes, I have studied the variations. Some. I do have other things to do, believe it or not.

Do you have any specifics you wish to share with us?

If you donít, people will be provoked to anger. Thatís not a threat, just the truth.

How can we understand if no one explains it?

I have other things to do too. Donít tell my boss Iím posting during the business day. Wink

alsetalokin wrote:
You aren't blind, but like a horse with blinders on, you can only see in one direction.

We all have blind spots. More about this later.

6.
alsetalokin wrote:
I don't want anybody to trust me. I want them to STOP trusting Steorn . . .

I have to disagree with you here (and half disagree). Isnít it true that you *do* want people to trust you, but you also want them to *agree* with you, especially on the issue of OU?

That is understandable. Unfortunately, itís not possible.

If I were in congress, I may try to pass a bill to curb pollution around a certain lake. I would get support from representatives who believe that man is the cause of global warming. Even if I disagree with them about global warming, I can still use their support for my bill. We can agree to disagree.

So why are you so offended by people who believe OU is possible? People think all sorts of crazy stuff: evolution/creation, pro-life/pro-choice, tastes-great/less-filling, etc. Why champion MPMMCPW?

And letís be honest, what kind of crazy guy who thinks OU is impossible would spend time and money putting together someone elseís design? I mean . . . uh . . . besides you?

So the replicators are nuts. So what? Canít you still use their efforts to help you understand the effect?

7.
alsetalokin wrote:
Seven appears totally based on the premise that the OC MPMM that I have shown is somehow FE/OU. But it isn't. So those points seem moot to me.

I wasnít trying to make #7 sound like how you interpreted it and for the record I agree with you--I donít think it is OU (but I wonít explain what I think it is because nobody cares).

I was trying to get inside your head to explain your reluctance to give OC a working whipmag, which as far as we know is *the* whipmag (including those magic stator magnets).

And this is a *HUGE* sticking point to the rest of the guys.

They want to test it more, get more experts on it, and find out what is going on. Many are Americans, the land of instant gratification. We want it, and we want it now. Some probably think that if you donít believe in OU, you shouldnít have an OU device, so give it up.

And you think . . . well, I donít really know what you think. Is it:
1. If they believe in OU, they shouldnít have a device that has this strange effect that looks like OU?
2. I never had to share growing up, why should I share now?
3. These magnets are magic?

Also, why havenít you told us more about the second whipmag? If you have two, you should share one (tongue in cheek, from a Twix commercial).

alsetalokin wrote:
So to sum it all up, munchausen I don't want anything from you, or anybody on these forums, except rational and critical thinking.

Well, you got it, at least from me I hope. But I can also understand where the other guys are coming from (BUT NOT OU, I HATE IT! Laughing ). They are rational and critical (very critical at times), but they are also emotional. They are human. They watched a guy demonstrate a strange effect. They questioned, they replicated (some better than others), they failed. There have been scattered reports of near success but nothing substantial. Maybe the effect is extremely fragile. Maybe your magnets are special. They donít know, but they want to. What can they do? What have they done?

1. Ask *you* questions, not because you have answers but because you have the working device.
2. Add more precision/detail to their replica: less friction, better materials, following directions.
3. Ask more.
4. Give up.
5. Reflect on previous 4 and get angry.
6. Direct anger toward someone or something.

I would hope I would stay in 1-4, but after about a month of this you must admit that even the meekest man on the earth would be ready to beat on a rock. Like a 5 year old learning to whistle, you canít just say, ďCome on kid itís easy. Just purse your lips and exhale.Ē Not all of these guys have the patience to work on this for hours and hours, especially when the original guy who demonstrated this phenomenon is . . . nebulous at times (e.g. What does it mean to free myself of preconceptions? What does that look like? How will it help me? What will I do differently?).

Again, I still believe you: mainly since you opened my eyes to the anti-gear-wise.

But the other guys canít look past all the questions that go unanswered--probably a function of your time constraints. But then they see you jump in to comment on a bearing upgrade which seems irrelevant to them, and maybe even an insult to their time, money and blisters.

They loathe your silence which leads to a lack of trust. I think the lack of trust breeds contempt which gives birth to the insults and hostility that you (and I) resent.

Maybe this is a blind spot for you.

I donít think they hate you. They just donít understand a few things and they arenít getting answers. They are frustrated and feel as though they are being provoked.

alsetalokin wrote:
What I need, mostly, is a good dog, a good walking stick, a fine pipe, and a big open field to walk in until dusk.

Done. You want it you got it. The package is in the mail. Open it immediately and feed the dog. Very Happy

alsetalokin wrote:
But thanks anyway.

Again, youíre welcome, and thank you.

P.S. I could be wrong. Let me know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:35 pm PostPost subject:
CLaNZeR
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 21

Reply with quote

FFS munchausen are you a Psychiatrist??????

And @AL no one dies alone mate, think you should spend a bit more time looking at other stuff in life than magnets if that is your conclusion.

Glad ya still around though Smile

Cheers

Sean.

P.S hope you still got the FTP details as I am still checking it weekly hehe
_________________
http://www.overunity.org.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:50 pm PostPost subject:
jwk
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 51

Reply with quote

Hey Al, if it's not too personal, how on earth do you get your doctor to reccomend alcohol ?

I wish mine would do that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:36 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

jwk wrote:
Hey Al, if it's not too personal, how on earth do you get your doctor to reccomend alcohol ?

I wish mine would do that.


It's not really that hard. First, just develop a nice case of coronary artery disease, then make sure your cardiologist is Irish.
Wink
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:14 am PostPost subject:
cloud camper
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 207

Reply with quote

You guys are just are just self flagellating expecting this clown to help. He thrives
on the attention. Why should anyone listen to this nutjob. You guys, he doesn't care
and is happy when you fail. I listen to the helpful types like Esa and Harvey with actual productive ideas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:58 am PostPost subject:
munchausen
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 54

Reply with quote

cloud camper wrote:
[blah blah blah] . . . this clown . . . nutjob . . . [blah blah blah]

cloud camper, you had to say all that in this thread?? Confused

Are you running out of places to post messages like that?

For all you know, alsetalokin has been given 2 months to live and his doctors tell him not to post on here because he gets too upset reading comments like yours. Give him, and everyone else a break.

It doesn't help anyone, not even you (even though you think it does).

And if you are going to react to this message in the same spirit as your last post, please don't reply on this thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:06 am PostPost subject:
munchausen
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 54

Reply with quote

CLaNZeR wrote:
. . . munchausen are you a Psychiatrist?

No, but thanks for reading my post, if you did. I think it exceeded the acceptable threshold.

I am a people person and I love to know what people are thinking. I must say, I would love to meet you. You seem to have such a good attitude about things, especially after all the experiments you have documented on your site.

What is your motivation? Are you really hoping to find OU or do you just enjoy playing with machines?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:40 am PostPost subject:
cloud camper
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 207

Reply with quote

[quote]For all you know, alsetalokin has been given 2 months to live and his doctors tell him not to post on here because he gets too upset reading comments like yours. Give him, and everyone else a break.[/unquote]

Very sorry about Al's medical problems. Wouldn't wish that on anyone.

But we need to rememer our history. The only reason the video was released was to diss Omnibus. Anybody see a pattern here? Certainly no motivation for hoax there! Here's the proof:

Happy New Year to you, @pirate88179 and to everyone in the forum. You should've seen what fight broke out in the Steorn forum. It turns out that by @alsetalonkin's own admission he only published the video because I had pissed him off. Can you believe it. Had I not pissed him off we wouldn't have known about this. Then it's pretty easy to stimulate people to do good things. How more childish one can be? Also, someone else there claims that this is his idea and credit should go to him. @alsetalonkin only built it. These people are out of their minds. Have they no idea what matters in this case? Anyway. Good luck to you and may we have a working device replicated by many, many people this year.


Last edited by cloud camper on Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:57 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:54 am PostPost subject:
flaky
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 18

Reply with quote

Came across this the other day.....

Don't know if it's true though...

http://www.betsgowild.com/bet.php?id=14647&tab=details
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:47 am PostPost subject:
CLaNZeR
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 21

Reply with quote

[quote="munchausen"]
CLaNZeR wrote:

What is your motivation? Are you really hoping to find OU or do you just enjoy playing with machines?


I do not think OU exists in this dimension we all know so well, but I do beleive that there is Energy that can be tapped into from elsewhere which will give the illusion of OU.
But that does not really matter as long as the outcome is the same.

In my opinion it is the Intent of people on this planet that counts and not whether they suceed or not.

And yep I love playing with machines and making wanna be Magnet Motors, but it is just a very small part of other stuff I play with.

Cheers

Sean.
_________________
http://www.overunity.org.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:34 pm PostPost subject:
jwk
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 51

Reply with quote

alsetalokin wrote:
jwk wrote:
Hey Al, if it's not too personal, how on earth do you get your doctor to reccomend alcohol ?

I wish mine would do that.


It's not really that hard. First, just develop a nice case of coronary artery disease, then make sure your cardiologist is Irish.
Wink


Im sorry to hear that. Mind you I've always thought arterys were over rated anyway. Bit o' hospipes what you need, big deep breath you could probably do it yourself.

Failing that, enjoy your medicine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Post new topic Reply to topic FizzX.org Forum Index | WhipMag Discussion/Development
View previous topic
View next topic
Display posts from previous:   




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum