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Whipmag with an orbiting stator

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Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:16 pm PostPost subject: Whipmag with an orbiting stator
buggyirk
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Well, I was kind of in between napping and being awake and thought of something that might add a new spin ( pun intended to the whipmag idea. What if the stator could accually orbit around the rotor while the stator is spinning. I don't think it would be difficult to try for someone's already build unworking whipmag replication. Maybe just add a swingable arm below or above the rotor attached at the axle and then attach a stator that can spin freely on the end of the arm.

Of course this is going kind of away from what OC had originaly thought about, but it would be interesting to see what effect this would have on the rotor. I mean who would have thought you could even get an AGW lock from this thing. I guess this would be like a planet-moon type device, which sounds like someone would have had to of thought of this before. Could it really be that simple? What do you guys think?
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:11 pm PostPost subject:
buggyirk
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Well yesterday I tried doing this with a bunch of crap I had lying around the house. It didn't really do anything for me, but I think it was heavily reliant on the fact that I made it so flimsy. I got gw lock to work, but agw lock was next to imposible. I think there was too much friction and I had to be way too careful with it otherwise it would all just fly apart.

When it locked gw I orbited the stator around the rotor counter clockwise while the rotor was spinning clockwise. I really wonder if you can get agw with this. I just don't have the tools to make a stable design. The rotor and stator slow down too much by the time I get to orbiting the stator around the rotor. If I tried orbiting the stator the same direction as the rotor, they eventually just sinched up and moved together. So I think orbiting the stator the opposite direction of the rotor while the rotor is spinning clockwise and the stator is spinning clockwise is the way to go. Anyone want to give it a shot? Laughing
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:28 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@buggyirk

Read your post last night and gave it some thought today.

How about this, Yadaraf's Rotor hangs from a tower and orbits, this reminded me of the ball in a bowl, so I will give this a go...

The axle in my rotor sticks up above the rotor by about 10mm, so I want to build a 5 leg stator plate that just sits on top of the axle and is free to rotate and tilt.
On the end of the legs I will place 5 spining stator mags(1 on each leg). If the mags are at a slight angle to the rotor it should balance.

What do you think??????????

P.S I like your thinking Laughing
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:09 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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Or maybe 9!! I don't have 13.
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:58 am PostPost subject:
buggyirk
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MADPROF wrote:
@buggyirk

Read your post last night and gave it some thought today.

How about this, Yadaraf's Rotor hangs from a tower and orbits, this reminded me of the ball in a bowl, so I will give this a go...

The axle in my rotor sticks up above the rotor by about 10mm, so I want to build a 5 leg stator plate that just sits on top of the axle and is free to rotate and tilt.
On the end of the legs I will place 5 spining stator mags(1 on each leg). If the mags are at a slight angle to the rotor it should balance.

What do you think??????????

P.S I like your thinking Laughing


Cool, I was just tossing out ideas. I am glad you are receptive. The thing I worry about is how you can possibly spin up all 5, or 9 stators and then move the stators into orbit. Sounds complicated. I was just thinking starting out with one. Smile
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:27 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@buggyirk

In all my testing I have NEVER seen the stator accelerate in A.G.W, but A.G will if you use another magnet. It seems the lag builds up and then lets go with a burst of acceleration between repeling poles on the rotor.

I think 9 mags would be best and this unwinding might transfer to the rotor with luck, so I will just spin the new stator plate oppersite to the rotor and see what the mags do. I know that if the mags orbit and cross the centre line of the rotor mags it will turn,so it's worth a try Laughing
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:32 pm PostPost subject:
buggyirk
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MADPROF wrote:
@buggyirk

In all my testing I have NEVER seen the stator accelerate in A.G.W, but A.G will if you use another magnet. It seems the lag builds up and then lets go with a burst of acceleration between repeling poles on the rotor.

I think 9 mags would be best and this unwinding might transfer to the rotor with luck, so I will just spin the new stator plate oppersite to the rotor and see what the mags do. I know that if the mags orbit and cross the centre line of the rotor mags it will turn,so it's worth a try Laughing


Oh, I see. Sounds good. Hopefully something will happen. Smile
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:16 pm PostPost subject:
Yadaraf
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MADPROF wrote:
@buggyirk

Read your post last night and gave it some thought today.

How about this, Yadaraf's Rotor hangs from a tower and orbits, this reminded me of the ball in a bowl, so I will give this a go...



@MADPROF

... Q: Are you referring to the Lego "WhipMag" rotor -- the four-pole one that hovered above the five stator magnets (including an oscillating stator), or are you referring to the Magnetix rotor that I spun by manually oscillating a nearby stator?


Cheers Smile
Yada..
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:35 am PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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Yadaraf wrote:
MADPROF wrote:
@buggyirk

Read your post last night and gave it some thought today.

How about this, Yadaraf's Rotor hangs from a tower and orbits, this reminded me of the ball in a bowl, so I will give this a go...



@MADPROF

... Q: Are you referring to the Lego "WhipMag" rotor -- the four-pole one that hovered above the five stator magnets (including an oscillating stator), or are you referring to the Magnetix rotor that I spun by manually oscillating a nearby stator?


Cheers Smile
Yada..
.


Hi Yada ,I was referring to your Megnetix Rotor with 9 mags fitted, a bit like a spinning top above the rotor.
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:32 pm PostPost subject:
Yadaraf
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MADPROF wrote:

Hi Yada ,I was referring to your Megnetix Rotor with 9 mags fitted, a bit like a spinning top above the rotor.


@MADPROF

Got it. Thanks. The Magnetix/SuperMagnetman parts are easy to work with, but to keep them from flying apart one has to use tape or rubberbands.

I'm in the process of augmenting the Magnetix rig with sensors, but I haven't had much spare time recently, so the project is moving slowly.

Cheers Smile
Yada..
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:45 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@Yada

I will machine something up, depends what I can find. Decided to use diametric mags the same size as the rotor mags.

I tried these in a bowl above my rotor and they fly round. Laughing

Good luck with your sensors.
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:46 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@All

Need some help.

Buggyirk said it would be hard to spin 9 mags A.G.W and then spin the main stator, well today Iv'e been playing with the bowl again and found if you place the mag in a small bowl inside the rotating rotor field they spin the same way as the rotor. (Both clockwise) So by spinning the stator plate anti-clockwise the stator mags will all spin the same as the rotor automatically.

Now I know this would happen with standard gear set ups ie: coming off the inside of the gear as opposed to the outside, but will I have the same interacion as the true A.G.W?

Please help if you can so I can get something going on the CAD.
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:06 pm PostPost subject:
buggyirk
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MADPROF

I was doing the whole thing kind of wierd. I would spin my rotor clockwise, then spin one stator, atatched to an arm, clockwise. Then I would rotate the arm counter clockwise. That is why I said it would be hard to spin nine stators, but if all your stators spin the same as the rotor when you rotate your plate, then that's neet. This definitly sounds like an interesting approach. I never really thought you could get all those stators to spin the same as the rotor by just orbiting them all around counter clockwise.
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:46 am PostPost subject:
Yadaraf
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MADPROF wrote:
@All

Need some help.

Buggyirk said it would be hard to spin 9 mags A.G.W and then spin the main stator, well today Iv'e been playing with the bowl again and found if you place the mag in a small bowl inside the rotating rotor field they spin the same way as the rotor. (Both clockwise) So by spinning the stator plate anti-clockwise the stator mags will all spin the same as the rotor automatically.

Now I know this would happen with standard gear set ups ie: coming off the inside of the gear as opposed to the outside, but will I have the same interacion as the true A.G.W?

Please help if you can so I can get something going on the CAD.


@MADPROF

You are venturing where no WhipMag-er has gone before. Cool

Be careful how you decribe AGW in your new approach. For the system you described -- where the magnetic gearing is INSIDE rather that OUTSIDE -- what you think is "AGW" is actualy "GW" rotation. Think about how the "magnetic teeth" are meshing (or cogging) in each case.

You might want to use the term "co-rotation" to describe the situation where the DRIVE gear and DRIVEN gear are rotating in the same direction

BTW, super-major KUDOS for helping OC. Wink

Cheers Smile
Yada..
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:40 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Been playing catch up. So far, I have only 1 stator attached. I tried out a few rotor configurations over the weekend. Nothing exciting to announce yet. I'm just seeing the type of things you guys have already seen.

I'm having a hard time getting sustained AGW stator rotation with the standard config. And when I do, it doesn't stay for more than a few seconds. I'm using N42 rectangular magnets. Think that's the problem?

I also decided to try photobucket for an image provider. Looks like my previous provider, IMGBolt, has gone under. You can see some of the rotor configurations I have been playing with at:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll48/overconfident/1stator/

I'm not really expecting much at this stage, just trying to get a feel for things.
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:16 am PostPost subject:
Esa Maunu
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I dont thik you can have good results alone with magnets, there has to be a electric field also present.
One way to get a static electric field is to place the device near the surface of the flat CRT tube ( an old one, that you dont need any more..) with a white picture. The magnet fields from the device are visble on a screen. I cant give any quaratee about this.. Rolling Eyes

Esa
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:50 pm PostPost subject:
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@ Yada

Thanks for your post, I understand what you are saying, and yes I always cock up what I am trying to say. The stator would be spinning G.W inside the rotor field, but would also be spinning the same as if it were outside the field spinning A.G.W.

The rotor field stays the same,would it interact the same with the field as A.G.W does on the outside?

Doing what I did for OC was the rigth thing to do, how he has so much input without having a whipmag in front of him is mind blowing. Shocked

I want to build something real bad, I am going nuts thinking about it,the biggest thing that has me so pissed, is I have all the tooling at hand to do it, just don't know where to start.

May be we should start a new thread, where everone can throw an idea in and we start to design something which has a bit of everything in it!!!!!!! I would be willing to do the drawings/machining. Start from the ground up and see what we get.

I think Esa is right, we need more than magnets. Idea

Take care.



@OC

sorry to hear A.G.W is evading you at the moment. I know it works I tested it before shipping. Razz Must be your rotor mags, I know the groves won't be wide enough, but if you could turn the rotor mags 45 degs so the edge faces the stator you might get it. Nice pics by the way, Laughing

Prof
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:30 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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@MADPROF,

If you're looking for ideas, I got a bunch. Here's one for you:

Mount the stators to the rotor disk so we have spinning rotor magnets and put the present rotor magnets around the outside as a fixed stator. Use springs to implement the pivot mechanism I described previously to help overcome resistance when transitioning into repulsion. I still think we need some sort of selective latching or braking mechanism for the spinning magnets.

I have some 5mm diameter x 5mm thick, diametrically magnetized magnets without the center hole I would like to use. I would need some miniature stator mounts and bearings. I used an exacto knife and cut a piece of soft silicone plastic to fit into one of the stators and cut a small hole in the center of it to hold the 5mm magnet. I have been trying it out as a stator on the rig you sent me, and it is definitely interesting, but I can't get it very close to the rotor because the stator's delrin magnet holder is too large in diameter. There's no precision whatsoever in what I did, and the rotation of the magnet is a bit eccentric, and the overall mass is much greater than it needs to be.

As far as my AGW rotation efforts, I'll play around some more by varying the stator distance, etc. I haven't done too much of that yet, I was just trying to look at some variations in the rotor magnet configurations to see if there were any obvious changes in behavior (I did see some differences, but so far none of them appear to be positive).

OC
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:39 pm PostPost subject:
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MADPROF wrote:


I want to build something real bad, I am going nuts thinking about it,the biggest thing that has me so pissed, is I have all the tooling at hand to do it, just don't know where to start.



I think the best way to get this ball rolling again is to do exactly what oc and al started to do. I mean after all, this started out with oc's idea. Maybe just have a thread were you two talk and start everything over again. You could be the new and improved al. Hehe.
Laughing
You have proven that you will accually send stuff to oc, which was so admirable. I am assuming you have some time for this though. If you don't it might turn into the whole al fiasco again.

Also, if we get too many ideas thrown around here, we will loose sight of what oc's original idea is. It's all about the magnets and lag. None of this static stuff and external power sorces and vibrations.
Confused
Not that there is anything wrong with that. We still don't know what the hell was going on with al's device. But if you MADPROF could just consintrate and put all your efforts into oc's original idea, I think we could accually get somewhere. I mean the poor guy still hasn't had anyone try his idea out fully.

Any thoughts?
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:02 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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buggyirk wrote:
... what oc's original idea is. It's all about the magnets and lag. None of this static stuff and external power sorces and vibrations.


Careful with that "lag" word. I'm not really fond of it, too ambiguous. My concept is about magnetic relationships and mechanical rotation. There may be a mechanical "lag" involved due to rotational inertia, but it is not anything like the magnetic viscosity "lag" Steorn talks about.

I have no objection to any of these other ideas and theories. I just don't consider myself competent enough to contribute much in those areas. So if it turns out to be an electrostatic effect, harmonic or resonant vibration, hyperdimensional etheric force, or psychokinetic aftereffect ... well someone else had better do the research. That's way outta my league.

OC
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:23 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@Buggyirk

Please don't compare me to AL. He is so up there in my eyes, I could not do him justice, nor could I comunicate with you all ,like Al did.
I ENGINEER PROBLEMS OUT. (And there are plenty of those)

You are dead right we need to start again, but not with OC's orignal idea, BUT WITH HIS DREAM.

This needs to be a collective effort by all, each and everyone of us has some gift they can bring to the table.



@OC
Please, Please, tell me your dream,You mentioned vortex's Very Happy any patterns to these? Please tell me it wasn't in 2D. were they rotating? you get the idea Very Happy
You must not mention magnets, or any thing you have learnt about since the dream. I want to SEE IT.

P.S If you need small stators draw a sketch, and post a pic, and I will send in a tick. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:09 am PostPost subject:
buggyirk
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MADPROF wrote:
@Buggyirk

Please don't compare me to AL. He is so up there in my eyes, I could not do him justice, nor could I comunicate with you all ,like Al did.
I ENGINEER PROBLEMS OUT. (And there are plenty of those)

You are dead right we need to start again, but not with OC's orignal idea, BUT WITH HIS DREAM.

This needs to be a collective effort by all, each and everyone of us has some gift they can bring to the table.


Sorry for comparing you two, I just thought the rig you sent to oc was so great.

I am sorry to hear you wont be able to post as much as al did? You seem to be doing pretty good to me so far though. Smile

I guess everyone does have a hand in this. Especially since it has got so much attention and is in the public domain. I just hope everyone can stay focused.

This might be a stupid question, but have you seen the pdf with all the info from the start about oc's dream and conversations with al? Here is the link:

http://www.ospmm.org/whipmag/pdf/OC_motor_012708.pdf
Razz

edit: also some steorn forum threads, and i am sure there are more:

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58463&page=9#Item_42

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60180

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60132

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60204

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58463


Last edited by buggyirk on Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:28 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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MADPROF wrote:

@OC
Please, Please, tell me your dream,You mentioned vortex's :D any patterns to these? Please tell me it wasn't in 2D. were they rotating? you get the idea :D
You must not mention magnets, or any thing you have learnt about since the dream. I want to SEE IT.

P.S If you need small stators draw a sketch, and post a pic, and I will send in a tick. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I'm afraid I can't very well separate the dream from magnets. I had been studying everything I could find on magnets for almost a year when I had the dream. I was trying to understand Steorn's concepts about magnetic viscosity and read over a dozen books and 200+ papers about magnetics.

The vision has faded a bit now and I no longer see the vivid colors or much of the 3rd dimension. It has flattened and faded over time. But the basic relationships are still there in my head.

I woke up early one morning with this swirling, chaotic image in my head. The dream was in full 3D with colors. It only had whirling vortexes. Think of 2 tornadoes, take one of them, invert it and connect the small ends together. That's how I see the inner part of each vortex (the field internal to the magnet). Now wrap a hurricane around the outside of it to make it into a stretched donut where the large ends of the tornadoes stretch outward and become the hurricane (external magnetic field).

In my dream, there were 5 of these vortexial things rotating around in a circle and each one was spinning on it's own axis (like the stator mags we are using, but attached to the rotor). There were 8 more of these vortexes, fixed in a larger circle. As the inner ring of vortexes would rotate and spin, it interacted with the outer, stationary set, causing unusual field distortions as they interacted and bounced off each other.

I saw some interactions which interfered with rotation and some which augmented rotation. At a certain point, when rotation and spinning were synchronized just right, the positive effects seemed to be much greater than the negative effects and the inner ring (the rotor) started accelerating. The spin seemed to be retarded somehow in certain orientations (this is what I have tried to describe as latching).

When I woke up, I immediately realized the dream had been about magnetic fields and I also realized if fields could interact as I had seen, the world was in for a pleasant surprise. I grabbed a couple sheets of paper and started sketching what I could recall. It wouldn't make much sense to anyone but me. Just a bunch of scribbles on a sheet of paper.

Afterwards, I played with some of the magnets I had and convinced myself it was worth further investigation. I then ordered some diametric magnets to continue my investigations. I have yet to see any magnet action that prohibits things from working as I saw in my dream.

I visualized GW spinning, but I can't recall whether that was the case in the dream or whether that was a bias I developed during my experimentation afterwards. I did not record what direction the vortexes were spinning, so I can't say for sure. I still feel like the spin was GW.

Another note from my dream, the static votexes were spaced far enough apart that the outer edges of each one's field just barely touched the outer edge of the next one (thus my claim that this rotor is too small to do what I envisioned. I think the fixed (rotor) magnets need to be spaced much further apart, or smaller magnets should be used.).

When I tested the magnetic interactions of the N42's I am using here, I came up with an optimal distance between them of 3 1/2 - 4 inches. That would make for a rotor about 18" or more.

I also saw some vortex deflection in my dream. My interpretation was a pivot that would allow the repulsive end of the fixed magnets to move away from the stator to relieve some of the opposition (sticky spot).

I've tried to describe the dream a few other times here and on the Steorn site, but this is probably the best description of the mechanics.

Hope this helps,
OC


Last edited by overconfident on Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:51 am PostPost subject:
buggyirk
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So this whole time the rotor was supposed to have the rotating magnets and the stators where supposed to be static? So why did al decide against that? Seems wierd. Sounds like something to try MADPROF. Shocked
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:59 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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buggyirk wrote:
So this whole time the rotor was supposed to have the rotating magnets and the stators where supposed to be static? So why did al decide against that? Seems wierd. Sounds like something to try MADPROF. :shock:


Al did it the way he did because my initial design was that way. I initially put the spinning mags outside, as stators because I couldn't think of a simple way to put them on the rotor. I did mention to him later that I had actually seen it the other way 'round, but he agreed it would be easier to implement the way I had drawn it.

And who am I to complain. He demonstrated some pretty impressive stuff.
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:13 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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MADPROF wrote:

P.S If you need small stators draw a sketch, and post a pic, and I will send in a tick. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I'm having a big problem with bearings. If anyone can suggest some appropriate, practical, tiny, efficient bearings for use with a 5mm stator magnet, I'd love to design a tiny low-mass stator. I think the rotor I have will be OK, but I would want the full set of 13 stators, plus a couple extras. And they should have the capability to insert a wire through them, above or below the magnet, that rotates with the magnet, to act as a brake in selected positions.

I'm not really very good when it comes to designing things. It took me several weeks to translate the images in my head into my initial crude design. And Al had to fill in a lot of unknowns to get where he did.

OC
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:24 pm PostPost subject:
cloud camper
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Hey OC , I have had good luck with Peer Miniature Bearings. They are stainless,
flanged, for 3/16" shaft, require a .302" hole. Part number is SSRIF-5632-HA5P35.
Peerbearing.com and you can download their catalog in PDF format. You
should be able to call up any local bearing supply house in your area and they should
be able to get them or an equivalent. Also have 1/4", 5/16" and metric sizes. Most
supply houses will give you a catalog. I have the Peer miniature bearing catalog.
Price is about $10 each. If you want to stick with metric sizes, such as 3,4,
5 mm you can get them at a hobby store that caters to the R/C race cars.
You can get SAE or metric stainless shaft material from Mcmaster.com.
They also carry miniature bearings.
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:10 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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@OC Wrote

I woke up early one morning with this swirling, chaotic image in my head.
(That would be still pissed up from the night before) Laughing

Thank you for explaining your dream, I like it a lot Laughing

The five rotating vortexes on the rotor, joined in the middle would offer far more interaction with the outside field than what we have at the momment, which at best is a knife edge.

The outside stator field just touching each other sounds more like a containment field for the rotor.

The rotor field bouncing of the stator field sounds like Esa's oscilating rotor.

G.W rotation of the rotor mags sounds good to me, the out of balance between five rotor mags and eight outer mags could take the play out of G.W and automatically retard or advance to produce the results we are looking for. I have nothing against latching, but strongly feel this needs to happen naturally.

I saw a site a while ago with a light beam model showing how the magnetism and electrity travel at right angles to each other, and I saw what I can only describe as a screw compressor blade (vortexes) thusting forward.

Everything we are dealing with here seems to want to take the shortest,easiest path, we need to stretch, manipulate, compress and contain these fields both magnetic and electrical, sorry I don't see one without the other.

The whipmag at present in my eyes, is only producing small ripples on the pond, not a tornado tearing it apart.

O.K OC I am buying into your dream, it has the right ingredients for the unknown, I really like the tornado's bouncing of the hurricane, they will have time to reset ready for their next collision with the hurricane. Some where on you tube is a free spinning magnetic disc bouncing off a magnet circular wall.

If a spinning object hits another object it leaves with more enegy than it had before, so why not with the rotor spinning mags?

So how do we create these joined vortexes using mags?
Do these vortexes (top-bottom) both spin the same way?

The guy with the ball in the bowl experiments produced some really great vortexes in water with his set up.

Thanks again OC your dream is the Dogs.
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:03 pm PostPost subject:
Yadaraf
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Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 436

Reply with quote

buggyirk wrote:
So this whole time the rotor was supposed to have the rotating magnets and the stators where supposed to be static? So why did al decide against that? Seems wierd. Sounds like something to try MADPROF. Shocked


@MADPROF

It appears that the "Lego Perpetuum Mobile" (hoax) is loosley based on OC's concept. It's rotor magnets rotate as the rotor spins.

.. Lego Perpetuum Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg


Cheers Smile
Yada..
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Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:23 pm PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 545

Reply with quote

Yadaraf wrote:
buggyirk wrote:
So this whole time the rotor was supposed to have the rotating magnets and the stators where supposed to be static? So why did al decide against that? Seems wierd. Sounds like something to try MADPROF. Shocked


@MADPROF

It appears that the "Lego Perpetuum Mobile" (hoax) is loosley based on OC's concept. It's rotor magnets rotate as the rotor spins.

.. Lego Perpetuum Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg


Cheers Smile
Yada..


Thank Yada

This is more like it, (Hoax what a waste of good time.)
Idea Idea Idea I remember in my younger days riding a fair ride like that, but it had link arms that threw you to the outer edge,dwelled then snaped you back on different path.
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