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Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:52 pm PostPost subject: reports from the front
alsetalokin
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Since the Steorn site is behaving strangely and setting off my spider-senses, by doing things like passing cookies from avatars and running scripts, and giving weird login behavior now, I'll use this forum for communication, at least until it goes sour too.
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Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:28 pm PostPost subject:
CLaNZeR
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Alsetalokin I am going to ask this and I feel that I have not hassled you at all over the last couple of weeks with requests or any of that other bullshit that has been floating around aimed at you.

After working 24/7 for the last 2 weeks in trying to get close to your Rig I want to request another video showing the spin up, the AGW latch and the acceleration that was shown in the first video, but that is as clear as the one you sent yesterday showing the Strobe effect.

I know you are pissed off with people trying to get you to prove this stuff over and over again and I really do not blame you after some of the remarks and damm right rudeness that I have read from certain people, if I was you I would probably also tell the world to PISS OFF.
I have had a little taste of it from the emails off the YouTube videos I have published and YEP it is amasing how many weirdo's are out there with no manners, not too mention respect for peoples Free Will to experiement with this stuff.

I am 90% sure you will not respond to this post, but that is not a problem, but my time playing with this is coming to a end because of real life stuff needing attention and time to jump boat as such. Would be great to get a result and backup the weird effect you have witnessed if nothing else.

I am not patronising your intelligence by the wording of my post above and if it sounds like it then I appologise now, just saying how it is.

Cheers

Sean.
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:05 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Hey CLaNZeR
No worries, friend. But my time playing with all this is coming to an end soon too. I checked out your website and I think the work you are doing is really cool. I wish I had the CNC stuff--I've been thinking about computerizing the Sherlines but haven't had an excuse yet.
Thanks for putting up the video and the pictures--I had no idea one could put inline pics up here (or I would have been doing it long ago...)
I'll do what I can, keep checking the ftp dir, but I have a lot of catching up to do at work this coming week, so no promises...
--Al
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:56 am PostPost subject:
MeggerMan
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Hi Al,

After doing some basic Femm 4 testing using a script and femm file created by niente over on the OU forum, it appears that there is a +ve torque, albeit very small, on the rotor and stator.

Possible TEST:
Have you considered getting the device synced up and then using a screw thread reduce the stator to rotor gap very slowly?
From the early Femm results, the torque should increase, I will know for sure after the simulation is completed.

I think I'm in the same boat as you Al, I have so much work at work that I am doing more work at home to catch up. The project I am working on (web based travel and expense system) is taking up all my spare time and I can only grab the odd minute to check on the various forums.
So I will understand if you are unable to do any work on the whipmag for a few weeks.
Regards
Rob
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:01 am PostPost subject:
CLaNZeR
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Hi Alsetalokin

Well I had the phone call last night and tomorrow night I am off travelling and away working during the week days again Sad so my play time is over.
Will be back at weekends and back to juggling time spent with the family and time spent on this crazy hobby hehe Laughing

Thanks for the reply and I will check the FTP every now and then, but I know it takes time.

The Sherline machines are a really popular choice for converting with steppers, couplers and a controller board. There seems to be loads of websites covering the subject and well worth doing, as will save alot of time.
Another hobby of mine was my CNC site over at http://www.cncdudez.com but like all things in life, there is never enough time and it had to go on the back burner.

Take care and I hope that someone replicates your Rig in the future.

Cheers

Sean.
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:58 pm PostPost subject:
riterX
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Al,

Like sfandbv, I would like to duplicate, as closely as possible, the original device.

The following is a quote from you.

"Here's an actual set of measurements made right now.
Material HDPE
rotor diameter 144mm (5.6692”)
rotor thickness 18mm (.7087”)
distance from OUTER EDGE of rotor, on a radius, to INNER EDGE of magnet slots 13 mm (.5118”)
slots are symmetrically arrayed 1/4” nominal width, 12 mm depth (.4724”)
slots cut in a single pass with a 2-fluted end mill 0.250”

It seems to me that the measurements might have been made with a ruler at home.
Could you make the measurements with a dial caliper?
I humbly apologize if those are the actual accurate measurements.

The .7087" thickness could actually be accurate as the specification for HDPE sheet says +/- 10%.

Also with the rotor magnet repulsion distance test some are wondering if you get the same distance (just over 30 mm) doing N to N and S to S.

Thanks for all you have done so far.

Cheers
rX
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:37 pm PostPost subject:
Dirtfarmer
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Al,
For what it is worth, "culvert hill farm(.zzn.com)" was my avatar. It was hosted at "Zap Zone Network" as part of a free E-mail site.
Again, sorry for any trouble.. It never occured to me.
Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:40 pm PostPost subject:
Lakes
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Hi Al,
Can I ask what you are going to do with the prototype when you are finished with it?

Keep it for further testing at a later date?
Send it to OC?
Send it to CLaNZeR or someone who can stream live video?
Put it on Ebay for auction? (I imagine several people would give their right arm to own this.

Thanks, great to see you still posting btw. Smile
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Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:34 pm PostPost subject:
shunyacetas
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Hey, I LIKE this place -- it it stays free of abusive posts, maybe we will all gain something.
Very Happy
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Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:33 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Posted on Steorn Forum a couple of days ago.
@Al Thanx for the dual trace waveforms. EDIT And the strobes Smile
I know your busy dude, I can relate

1. You mentioned (in a humorous way) putting the device in the freezer. I would like to see even just 30 minutes of that data at 4 minute intervals if at all possible.

2. The strobe video when and if Edit: Done! Thanx Again

3. Faraday cage if at all possible

4. Operating rotor speed with device on edge (rotor axis in x-plane). Preferrably 36 readings with the device turned 10 degrees each on the y-axis after standing on edge with a reference to magnetic north (say zero is North for instance).

I want to eliminate obvious possiblities prior to moving forward with my flux compression hypothesis.

Thanx,

Harvey
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Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:12 am PostPost subject:
Ericc
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Al & CLaNZeR

Sherline machines : www.linuxcnc.org

Emc2 (enhanced machine controller) comes with complete preconfigured HAL for several type machines, including Sherline.

Complete user friendly live/install cd download includes real time kerne OSl, emc2 and al one can dream of for automation. Free and with long term auto upgrade.
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Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:07 pm PostPost subject: First post - hiya!
Patrick
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Just thought I would post a quick comment as a newbie. I am trying to build a replication for my own interest. I have read the history for the past few weeks (since the briefly posted video by Alsetalokin - ground zero!) and find it all interesting.
I am attaching an image showing base and magnet. I am using 3/4" Delrin rod instead of 5/8 to allow for more room to mess up a bit. A 1/2" drill bit allows for a perfect press fit of the magnet.
I am hoping to emulate the ratio of the stator and rotor as evidenced in the strobe video. I am using all nylon or HDPE hardware instead of brass.
Although I do not have an exact setup, it is interesting to see the interaction of the magnets and to keep up to date on various developments.
best regards--

[img]http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=basemag1smuu8.jpg]
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Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:42 pm PostPost subject:
ElectricSmoke
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@Al,

I have seen your video several times and believe what you have is real. I’m into hobby robotics and I know after adding batteries, wires and motors, it would be hard to hide such a setup with your rig. Some have suggested "external" energy sources is what makes it spin, but that suggestion by it's self is amazing if it were true. I mean, how can you cause a plastic rotor to spin at 5,000 RPM from an external power source? Even if you could manage to cram in a tinny motor at the bottom; to get it to spin at 5,000 RPM would be a struggle, besides the motor would have to turn on via "mental thoughts" LOL, since no switches were used. you could have an RF switch, but again this would only add to the bulk of the wires, motors, circuit boards, etc...

I fear that this discovery will fade away unless someone can reproduce the effect to carry on this fantastic wonder. I hope that you can hang in there and perhaps treat this as a hobby so that you don’t get burned out.

I look forward to seeing new test results. Keep up the great work!
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Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:43 am PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Personally I need more evidence to determine if it is real or not.

With the exception of Al's failure to communicate with us since Jan 25th he has not given me a reason to distrust him.

However, he has repeatedly stated that the device cannot possibly work from human power alone and must be driven by something. And, at some time past he indicated that he did not know what that was.

It is quite possible however, since that time, he has discovered the secret to his source. Perhaps the secret is so obvious he feels badly that he didn't realize it sooner. And rather than face all the claims that he knew all along he has relegated himself to silence. I can see how that would be a tempting posture if this was the case. Or, he may have hoaxed this from the beginning in an effort to educate those who believe in the impossible. And as a final stage to the process he allows circumstances to exist that would foster wild theories of abduction or termination so as to provide an escape from the burden of admitting to the truth.

That being said, the video is inconsistant with a hoax. Instead, it shows signs of quickly documenting an effect without giving the process any forethought. Even the speed readings are not accurate and the second voice in the video indicates this. I have personally experienced acceleration of magnets that I was spinning like a coin in the presence of other PM fields. I have seen at least one video on youtube that shows this type of acceleration, and another that illustrates the AGW type mesh. For these reasons I want to believe AL does have a unique configuration as shown.

But evidence is lacking, and AL's silence only makes the matter appear worse.
This will cause two things to happen. 1. Discouragement among replicators. 2. The project will be driven underground by those that know they can replicate it.

Consequently J.Q. Public loses. Neutral
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:26 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Well, much water under the bridge, I see. I'm glad everyone is keeping themselves entertained--but this "identity" confusion and impostoring has got to stop.

First of all, it has come to my attention that various people may be canvassing employers via email and telephone calls trying to locate and identify me. It should be needless to say that this is double-plus-ungood. I'm asking here for this please to stop. It serves absolutely no useful purpose and could be quite destructive in the long run.

Secondly, I am not, nor have I ever been, Carmine Corrente aka "AlSetalokin" the fractal artist and religious nutjob. The moderators and administrators of the various sites should be able to provide some data to support this statement. And it really should be obvious to anyone who cares to investigate: His fractal art is much more sophisticated than my puny attempts were; my ideas on religion and philosophy are much more sophisticated than his are; there's no way he was Jesuit-educated, etc. Frank Grimer owes me (and probably Carmine) a big apology on this one, for calling me a liar because I told him, long ago, that I am not that person. By the way, Gaby (fractured express) asked me in a whisper on the Steorn forum if I was that AlSetalokin long before Frank did, even before the OCMPMM, iirc.

Thirdly, neither am I the "alsetalokin" that has recently placed a bet on betsgowild. I don't gamble, even for play money, but if I did, I would have bet that someone would indeed have replicated exactly what I showed in the first video, long before now. I am actually surprised that no one has. The important parameters are not really that critical. (For example, I posted a quick measurement, taken with a dial caliper, of 144 mm for a rotor diameter. Soon someone had converted that measurement into Imperial units to the ten-thousandth of an inch. Then I suppose others tried to machine their rotors to that accuracy. No offense, but that's just silly.) The only hint I can give here is for people to drop their preconceptions and theories and approach the matter from a truly scientific viewpoint, with a little background study and meditation on the logic of replication and investigation of extraordinary claims.

Fourth, I am also not the "alseta1okin" who posted a garbled message on overunity.com. I have never and will never post on that forum.

I don't really know how to authenticate my posts, short of publishing my PGP 128-bit public key and then including an encrypted message in every post. I'm not willing to go to that trouble. So, all things considered, we'll just let chaos rule, and I'll just sit back and watch while all the other "alsetalokins" stir things up. But really, it is rather amazing how people pick and choose what they will believe, based on little or no real factual input from anywhere. Isn't it?
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:31 pm PostPost subject:
CLaNZeR
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Anyway , Nice to see you are safe and sound mate.

Cheers

Sean.
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:50 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Good to hear from you Al.

I certainly empathize with your situation.

I hope you have found the source you sought after and are making progress in your endeavors.

My new approach looks promising, but my fabrications are only proof of concept quality. I am redesigning the electronic section and have not setteled on a specific trigger. When I get it working I'll put up some data.

Wink
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:36 pm PostPost subject:
Lakes
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Good to see you posting again Al, stay well.
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:21 pm PostPost subject:
ElectricSmoke
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Good to see you and well said Al.

It has always surprised me how wildly different each replication has been. Different magnets, bearings, stators, dimensions, etc... For me, using the original specs is the best way to go and I have yet to see one rig that looks like the original down to the last nut and bolt.

One thing has been proven more than once and that's AGW is real.

Stay low and keep in touch.
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:30 pm PostPost subject:
geodanz
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Al,

Even though there are a number of fruitcakes out there harassing you I don't think that it's fair to paint everyone with that same brush... most of us are out here genuinely and in good faith trying to replicate your anomalous effect... so if you're surprised that there have been no replications, just imagine how we are all feeling...

Anyway, if you think that you might know what we could be missing in out replication attempts would you mind sharing your ideas?

Frankly the best success that I personally have had was not with this rig at all, but it was by spinning a .5" spherical neo with a rotor style neo stuck to each side (-O-) like a top... I also had two duplicates each placed about 9" away at 12 and 6 o'clock (with the "top" spinning on Plexiglas in the middle of the imaginary clock..., the magnet configurations(-O-) at 6 & 12 were restrained (with plain transparent tape) from moving close or farther away from the top, or spinning, but they were free to pivot a few degrees which they did when the top was spinning... by doing this I was able to extend rotation time of the top, but nothing that could be considered sustained rotation nor acceleration.... I tried many configurations but this seemed to be the most encouraging, so when i get a little time I'll try to build a rig to try to duplicate or improve that same effect...
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Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:54 pm PostPost subject:
couldbe
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alsetalokin wrote:
I would have bet that someone would indeed have replicated exactly what I showed in the first video, long before now. I am actually surprised that no one has....approach the matter from a truly scientific viewpoint, with a little background study and meditation on the logic of replication and investigation of extraordinary claims.


From what we've seen of Al, especially the second, 'trashcan', video, I translate the above as: I thought you guys would have been smart enough to figure out my hoax by now.
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:34 am PostPost subject:
geodanz
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couldbe wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
I would have bet that someone would indeed have replicated exactly what I showed in the first video, long before now. I am actually surprised that no one has....approach the matter from a truly scientific viewpoint, with a little background study and meditation on the logic of replication and investigation of extraordinary claims.


From what we've seen of Al, especially the second, 'trashcan', video, I translate the above as: I thought you guys would have been smart enough to figure out my hoax by now.


Who knows, I've learned long ago that that the best thing to do about passive aggressive behavior like this is to simply walk away... you'll never get "what you want" or any straight talk from P.A.s, just more of the same, a continuation of the status quo... resolution is not their goal, but to keep you hooked and string you along is, - just as far as you're willing to go -...

I'm not saying that the whirligig is a fake, nor that it isn't, I simply don't know. What I am saying is that there is an explanation, and Al has it, but he's not sharing... just maybe Al spent a little too much time under the bloody Jesuits and now he's taking it out on us... I don't know... but whatever his issues, I'm sure that he too can be forgiven.
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:05 am PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Al,

If you will take a more active role, I'll be happy to just drop off the face of the earth.

Nice to hear you're alive and well, although that's not really what you said. I hope things are going well for you.

OC
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:32 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Thanks to you all for the kind greetings.
It's such a relief to see that Frank Grimer feels free to copy and paste my posts into the other web forums. It saves me some trouble, I suppose--but it points out how unscrupulous Frank really is. First he believes, then he disbelieves, then he thinks I'm Carmine and calls me a liar, but uses my device to support his greek-atmosphere theories, and so forth. Then he freely rips off my words and posts them wherever.
I'm sure you all have seen the pejorative dialog that Omnibus and Frank are having about me on overunity.
All that, but still no apology from him about the Corrente affair. Is there no honor among Catholics any more?
Somebody really should rein Frank in.

Meanwhile kudos to aber0der, ping1400, modervador, CLaNZeR, Harvey, MaryYugo, RunningBare, and all the others who are thinking clearly and working hard.
It's great to see that some folks are headed in the direction of OC's original ideas with pivots and latches. This is where progress, if any, will lie, imho.

Frank, if you copy and paste this post anywhere else, please be sure to include this sentence, so everyone else will see, yet again, just how juvenile you are in your dotage.

And no, I expect and will obtain no forgiveness, not from those who really matter. A nod and a wink from a mythical bloody Saviour, once I've bought my indulgence from the priests, isn't comforting at all. But if I could say, "I'm sorry" to my mother and father, to Elisabeth, to Little Bear, to Rob and Eddie and Sandy and Larry, to all those others whom I've really wronged and who are gone for ever and who cannot forgive me, I would. But I cannot.

And yes, geodanz, newbie, I wholeheartedly agree with you--you should simply walk away, and take your pop-pseudo-psychology with you.
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:03 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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geodanz wrote:
couldbe wrote:
alsetalokin wrote:
I would have bet that someone would indeed have replicated exactly what I showed in the first video, long before now. I am actually surprised that no one has....approach the matter from a truly scientific viewpoint, with a little background study and meditation on the logic of replication and investigation of extraordinary claims.


From what we've seen of Al, especially the second, 'trashcan', video, I translate the above as: I thought you guys would have been smart enough to figure out my hoax by now.


Who knows, I've learned long ago that that the best thing to do about passive aggressive behavior like this is to simply walk away... you'll never get "what you want" or any straight talk from P.A.s, just more of the same, a continuation of the status quo... resolution is not their goal, but to keep you hooked and string you along is, - just as far as you're willing to go -...

I'm not saying that the whirligig is a fake, nor that it isn't, I simply don't know. What I am saying is that there is an explanation, and Al has it, but he's not sharing... just maybe Al spent a little too much time under the bloody Jesuits and now he's taking it out on us... I don't know... but whatever his issues, I'm sure that he too can be forgiven.


Prompted by you perceptive suggestion about "passive aggressive behavior" I thought I'd look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior

Mmm... Certainly consistent with his - uncle, member of the jury - tease.

I too am sure he can be forgiven. But you can't forgive people if they don't want to be forgiven as Al will no doubt remember from his Jesuit training. You can't force forgiveness on them. They have to want it. I don't think Al does.
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:58 am PostPost subject:
geodanz
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@Al, Newbie, yes, to magnets and these lists, but not to life... Pop-pseudo-psychology or not Al, PA is as PA does... you just continue to string people along and prove my point...
Whom you need forgiveness from or not is your own business to work out, but from the sound of it, I do hope that you can also forgive yourself.
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:58 am PostPost subject:
Axle
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I hate to jump in here and to be 'out of place'. I have been closely following along for weeks/months. CLaNZeR, the work/play you do is AWESOME.

alsetalokin, do you remember back in July after the failed ORBO demo?

We all, at the Steorn Forum, looked and analized the images. You were right on top of it all. Remember my 'renderings'?

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58938&page=2#Item_18

Al, I was so surprised that my renderings 'showed up', the next day, along with a photo of Sean McCarthy.

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2007/07/first_glimpse_of_an_orbo.html

AL, I had never had anything of mine 'catch on' on this internet. It was a 'big deal' for me. And you were a part of that...Thank You!

Not sure where I'm going with this... I see others here, and on other forums, who have much more talent/education/skills...etc. than I have..

...but if we, as individuals, can add, any bit of something, to keep this THING moving forward..

That is all from me....tonight.
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:49 am PostPost subject:
MADPROF
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alsetalokin wrote:
I would have bet that someone would indeed have replicated exactly what I showed in the first video, long before now. I am actually surprised that no one has....

Al, No forgiveness needed. You showed what was needed in your first video to replicate your set up. I saw it the first day it was posted on You Tube and also thought it would be only days until we saw another working whipmag. That did not happen and if any one needs forgiving it should be me. I have sat on this for so long and done very little. I tried to fish for answers but got nowhere. So now I have started my whipmag using what I have learned from the great man himself from over 200 years ago, it too was passed over by new technology. Still shit happens I can only say sorry for not moving quicker, but money is tight and subcon jobs must come before my own. 1-2 weeks tops..

Take care my friend, and may your God be with You..
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:39 pm PostPost subject:
Nentin
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Al,

I think if you want someone to replicate this device we need to know what the actual strength of your rotor magnets are?

Thanks,
Nentin
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:13 pm PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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Yes it is madening when someone cross-posts to other forums.
I hate it when people do that to me, and I'm sorry that it happened to you.

Best wishes to you

ps- Al & OC, if you want new IDs on steorn forum, you know the offer is there Smile
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