top

Bad Management

Post new topic Reply to topic FizzX.org Forum Index | Skeptics, sceptics, and Cynics Goto page 1, 2  Next   Page 1 of 2

Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:48 am PostPost subject: Bad Management
Scott in Chicago
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 21

Reply with quote

All of this is…just my opinion.

Lets suppose for a minute (indulge me please) that Steorns Orbutt machine works. So what!
When it’s all said and done what are we left with? The realization that Steorn is a very poorly managed company. Why? Because a company is, 99% of the time, an organization specifically created to produce a profit, and fast. Time is money.

Sure, I understand that they may have made a great revolutionary discovery, but what about running a business. Forget for a minute about the merits of the claim. Why in hell would a company deliberately choose what may be one of the longest paths to market with their product? They made this discovery nearly four years ago. It is the greatest discovery for mankind, right? Something the world needs IMMEDIATELY. But yet somehow there is still no "product" on the shelves so to speak. What business person would ever behave like this? NO ONE WITH HALF A BRAIN.

Small example; they could have taken the money they used on the advertisement in the Economist and produced ten thousand "toys" (like what we saw at the failed demo) and placed them on store shelves in Europe. Oh and hey, they could have sent a few to some well known university scientists, a few to some journalists, a few to the top automaker executives. Now, how long do you think it would take before someone stood up and said “what the F&*%$ is this thing. It’s been running for two months now and won’t stop. It doesn’t have any batteries. What did the little pamphlet say” (auto exec grabs the pamphlet with his chubby fingers) “This is ORBO. This is a machine we at Steorn have invented. It is the world’s first real perpetual motion machine. Enjoy.” then there would be another little statement on the bottom of the page… “Please contact Steorn for further information or licensing options if you would like to apply this technology to your company’s products”. Sound silly. Yeah it does because it’s so simple. And yet imagine what would happen. Hummmm.

With a creation like Orbo you simply have to sit back and watch’em swarm. I think you get the picture. In less than a year and a half all of Steorn’s investors would be paid, and then some.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:56 pm PostPost subject:
maryyugo
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 114

Reply with quote

That's all exactly correct-- except that no company could be that badly managed. The right answer is that Steorn has no perpetual motion device and can not produce one. Whether what Steorn/Sean did/said was either a stupendous act of self-delusion and gross incompetence or deliberate fraud is one question that, hopefully soon, courts of law will examine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:22 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 360
Location: Harrow, England

Reply with quote

maryyugo wrote:
That's all exactly correct-- except that no company could be that badly managed.....

Yep. That was my businessman son's reaction.

There was something very fishy about the London demo. I believe they knew it was not going to take place well before hand - but I haven't been able to work out just what this means.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:03 pm PostPost subject:
aber0der
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 37

Reply with quote

Frank wrote:
maryyugo wrote:
That's all exactly correct-- except that no company could be that badly managed.....

Yep. That was my businessman son's reaction.

There was something very fishy about the London demo. I believe they knew it was not going to take place well before hand - but I haven't been able to work out just what this means.



What do you think of this:

Selling a desktop toy: No problem.
Selling licenses for a tech that doesn't work: No problem.
Selling generators that won't work as advertised: Problems
Demonstrating a fake device: Problems
Demonstrating a device that doesn't work: No problem.
Canceling Demo: No problem.
Claiming to believe the tech works: No problem.
Claiming to have an actual working motor: Problems.
Claiming to have various test systems: No problem.
...
I can see a pattern here. But what could it mean?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:34 pm PostPost subject:
maryyugo
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 114

Reply with quote

@aber0der

Not quite sure what you're getting at there-- can you explain a bit more?

It's pretty obvious by now that NOBODY, no matter how nuts or incompetent, would do what/like Steorn did after the failed demo. Anyone who had any viable technology whatever to show would have brought at least some of it out after that Kinetica debacle. The leaked videos and published interviews show what Sean/Steorn did instead -- they showed toys that don't work, no "corpse", no working device, and Sean rambled on at the post-Kinetica meetings and interviews without giving any credible or valid information. That this contrasts so strikingly with Steorn's earlier claims must mean that they hey don't have any overunity device.

It's equally inconceivable that, seeing the failed demo, someone from the jury or anyone who had seen the "technology" wouldn't snitch. Overunity would be too important and revolutionary a discovery for there to be complete secrecy if it were real. People just don't work like that. Even a project as carefully guarded as the development of the atomic bomb in war time had huge leaks.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Steorn has no overunity device and never did. Why they made their claims boils down to the usual possibilities-- self delusion or fraud or both.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:35 pm PostPost subject:
maryyugo
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 114

Reply with quote

EDIT: duplicate post due to forum malfunction... deleted.

Last edited by maryyugo on Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:45 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:22 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

Test post, in response to MaryYugo's post on Freeenergytracker...
Rolling Eyes
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:24 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

Well, I just got the same error message that Mary mentioned on FET--but obviously the post (and Mary's, evidently) got through anyway...
Question
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:51 am PostPost subject:
Mr.Entropy
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Canada

Reply with quote

There's still no evidence either way, and nothing is accomplished by by filling the void with pop. psychology.

It carries no more authority than a dilettante engineer's claims of free energy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:47 am PostPost subject:
maryyugo
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 114

Reply with quote

@Mr.Entropy

Oh, there's plenty of evidence. Here it is: Steorn made some clear strong claims that are easily and quickly testable. They failed to deliver in an entire year. That's strong evidence that they lied about having an overunity device which was ready to demonstrate. Isn't it? If not, why not? They didn't *refuse* to demonstrate-- they tried and couldn't. Those are very different situations.

(Edit: spelling error)


Last edited by maryyugo on Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:40 pm PostPost subject:
Joh70
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: South-Germany

Reply with quote

they have to plan the second demo very very carefully, otherwise nobody ever will take them serious or do business plans with them. many units (bigger and failsave ones) must be calculated, build and tested intensily.

The demo's to the public are important for their reputation but DOESN'T play the main part in their business plan, i think.

It looks like, that chief Sean want's a confirmation thru real scientists first to achieve better and more serious licence-deals with customers. So he want't to be verified, before to let somebody sign a licence-contract. But the fees shall be low? Where is the problem? Is he anxious to deal with others without external confirmation? Maybe.

And if he is a good business-man also, who is aware, that others will figure out same or other OU-technology, he will use time meanwhile to prepare business with at least one global-player in the back, already producing thousands of generators ready to sell in a short. This would give him the chance to earn a calculateable sum for sure, to bring back the millions invested in research, before somebody could copy the invention and come to market. But if he doesn't do that or waits too long, they will lose everything: money and reputation.

BECAUSE OTHER INVENTORS DON'T SLEEP. NOW ITS TIME FOR FREE ENERGY. THAT'S NOT A STEORN THING ONLY!

For example: Traveling around the B-H-curve does not essentially mean having a mechanically setup. OU can achievd without using moving parts.

Maybe Orbo is out of business before it comes to market. But the market is such big, that every good generator could be sold. And moving motors are well accepted in cars and Power plants / so no problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:51 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

"For example: Traveling around the B-H-curve does not essentially mean having a mechanically setup. OU can achievd without using moving parts. " (sic)

Oh really? Perhaps you could tell us how. A circuit diagram, or a picture of your working overunity device, would be instructive. Should we buy stock in your company now, and sell our oil stocks?
By the way, what does your automobile run on? How do you power your house?
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:41 pm PostPost subject:
maryyugo
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 114

Reply with quote

I will never understand why reputation or acceptance becomes an issue if someone has an overunity device on hand that they can show to the press, universities and so on. Just show it-- who cares if the "establishment" approves it? Why would that ever matter? For example, could someone please show me how the "acceptance" of heavier than air flight, the electric lightbulb, or the atomic bomb was significantly delayed because some die-hard old farts didn't think it would work?

I think non-technical types simply don't understand how easy it is to show and demonstrate (not prove beyond all doubt) an overunity device. There's no need to do anything fancy like making a car. That's just silly (it was Tilley's con). All you have to do is make a device that moves or makes power without any power going into it. That's it! No jury, no interviews, no promises, no African pumps, no toys, nothing like that-- just a simple demo of any device that requires no power and does useful work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:08 am PostPost subject:
Mr.Entropy
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Canada

Reply with quote

maryyugo wrote:
They failed to deliver in an entire year. That's strong evidence that they lied about having an overunity device which was ready to demonstrate. Isn't it?


Lie, delusion, bumbling incompetence, sinister conspiracy or a bizarre hidden agenda. Who's to say?

Again, there's no evidence. Nobody has inspected the device. Nobody has documents showing evil intent, or any sort of reputable support, either. Most sadly: even Dr. Mike could provide only an amateur psychoanalysis.

There's no closure in that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:12 am PostPost subject:
Scott in Chicago
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 21

Reply with quote

This is all….just my opinion.

From my perspective as it related to this thread of Bad Management I'm not focusing so much on whether they have a PMM or not. I'm concerned with the way they are ruining a company. All this jury, university scientists, demo activities is, for a lack of a better word, OVERKILL.

I can't imagine what will happen if they actually have a free energy device and this is the way they run a company. I guess they are hoping that once all is revealed (validation) other companies won't think about how they conducted themselves during this time. I would be very uncomfortable doing business with this company with Sean in charge. He has dreamed up all these convoluted machinations to bring a very simple (in design) product to market.

I don’t trust his business sense and wouldn't hire him to wash my dog. He would show up at my house with two fire trucks, two cop cars, an ambulance, and 12 jurors to oversee the project. I don't want 16 firemen stepping out of the trucks spraying my puggle down the street.

It's not so much the company credibility he is ruining as much as it’s his incompetence that he is demo-nstrating. Still four years and No Profit from Orbo, a product that actually can sell itself instantly!? That’s crazy! The very idea that they may have a creation that will have the potential of making them a billion dollar company and Sean is in charge of that is mind bogglingly frightening. If I was in any way part of the Steorn investor team I would demand he step down and bring in qualified individuals who can make sound, rapid business decisions. I simply fear that the guy would not be able to recoup my invested money fast enough….if at all. And If I was a company seeking to do business with Steorn… well lets just say it would affect my interaction with them if he was in charge. He seems to make decisions that are convoluted, costly, time consuming, and nonsensible.

BTW investors, seen any money yet?

No.

What a surprise.
Get it yet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:41 am PostPost subject:
Joh70
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: South-Germany

Reply with quote

@alsetokin: my car still runs with petrol and my house with oil and conventional electricity. Sad have no running free energy unit at the moment. i am a strong beleaver and researcher only. but i can come and inform you, if i have something realy new, if you want? Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:44 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

Absolutely, Joh70. If you have something new, and I stress that, then I most certainly would like to be informed. I encourage research, so keep it up. Just remember to do the right control experiments! Wink
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:21 am PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Canada

Reply with quote

@ Scott
what's a "puggle"?
Question
poodle/beagle, or maybe a pug/beagle ??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:32 am PostPost subject:
drichardson
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 221

Reply with quote

I think it's a pug/poodle mix?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:48 am PostPost subject:
Joh70
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: South-Germany

Reply with quote

Hi Alsetalokin, hi all,

no concept shows OU better than purely mechanically setups without magnets, electricity or chemicals. I mean a gravity-wheel like Johann Bessler already did between 1700 - 1800 should shut up the sceptics easily and for sure.

Good news: The forum-member Ashtweth_ of overunity.com maybe will inspect Chas Campbells Bessler-Wheel (Australia) in detail tomorrow. Maybe it will become the first well documented Gravity-wheel in the internet-community. Read the news here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2487.210

Its a huge wheel with around 1 kW free power. Not the smartest generator, but - as i said - a good demonstration of overunity and one fascinating possibility to gain at least some energy from "nothing".

If it fails, i will develop my own, because gravity-wheels are already done by other inventors. i realy asume they work. i saw one with my own eyes ten years ago. unfortunately only poor information is available at the moment from the most designs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:48 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
Major Contributor
Major Contributor


Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 360
Location: Harrow, England

Reply with quote

Joh70 wrote:
Hi Alsetalokin, hi all,

no concept shows OU better than purely mechanically setups without magnets, electricity or chemicals. I mean a gravity-wheel like Johann Bessler already did between 1700 - 1800 should shut up the sceptics easily and for sure.

Good news: The forum-member Ashtweth_ of overunity.com maybe will inspect Chas Campbells Bessler-Wheel (Australia) in detail tomorrow. Maybe it will become the first well documented Gravity-wheel in the internet-community. Read the news here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2487.210

Its a huge wheel with around 1 kW free power. Not the smartest generator, but - as i said - a good demonstration of overunity and one fascinating possibility to gain at least some energy from "nothing".

If it fails, i will develop my own, because gravity-wheels are already done by other inventors. i realy asume they work. i saw one with my own eyes ten years ago. unfortunately only poor information is available at the moment from the most designs.


See the video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Y8DBXJTt8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:11 pm PostPost subject:
aber0der
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 37

Reply with quote

maryyugo wrote:
@aber0der

Not quite sure what you're getting at there-- can you explain a bit more?


@maryyugo:
I agree with you on most points re. Stoern, but i don't think that the demo failed. I believe it was planned that way and it was a success. They created lots of circumstantial evidence for the believers and perhaps for potential investors. All 'information' seems to come from SPDC 'leakers', so it's not 'Sean said' anymore. Some spudders are even prepared to tell lies for Stoern. And who is the person in the k-smot video? Not a Stoern employee. And it was 'leaked'.
It looks to me like they know pretty well what they can say and what they can't say. The other things apparently have to go through 3rd parties like Knapen and the SPDC.
Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:40 pm PostPost subject:
Scott in Chicago
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 21

Reply with quote

A puggle is a crossbreed between two breeds of dogs, a pug and a beagle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:30 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Sol III

Reply with quote

Re Campbell's sillyness:
An early report is in:

(shameless quote from Stefan Hartmann, thread cited earlier by Joh70)

He just was at Chas´s place and measured the input to the 800 Watts
drive motor
to be about 6 Amps and
the output of the alternator was about 10 amps.
(probably at the same voltage)

But I did not fully understand, how long they did run it this way
and he talked something about pulsing the output or input.
He said, they did run it with a hacksaw as the load and another
load thing I did not understand what it was...

But Ash said, with the RV principle the input power could be
surely decreased to around 50 Watts only...

He also saw the big wheel, which almost completely runs
on itsself, which seems to be a different device and
that it only stopps, cause it was built from some
bad cheap parts, so the mechanims begins somehow to
vibrate and then stops, but Ash said, with better parts
this thing should not stop.

(end quote)

So, it produces 10 amps output for 6 amps input "probably at the same voltage"???
But it doesn't run itself. It needs a "drive motor" running it. Where have we heard this before?
And the big wheel "only stops", even though we were told in previous Campbell news that he had one that ran continuously.

There is nothing new here. No overbalanced wheel, no perpetual motion device, no self-running motor-generator, no free energy.

Twisted Evil

And a Samoyoodle is a cross between a Samoyed and a Poodle. Neutral
_________________
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:11 pm PostPost subject:
aber0der
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 37

Reply with quote

It's so obvious that it makes me think that maybe all of those FE claimants are fully aware that their 'inventions' are bogus and they are simply unemployed humorists.
Anyhow, spending your time trying to build a PPM and gaining 1st hand knowledge is far more better than watching TV-Networks pumping sewage into your house.


Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:36 am PostPost subject:
exco
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 190

Reply with quote

Anyhow, spending your time trying to build a PPM and gaining 1st hand knowledge is far more better than watching TV-Networks pumping sewage into your house.

Thats a matter of opinion. Both are a waste of time, appeal only to idiots, but sitting in front of the telly damages the environment less that expensive, complex chasing after the unattainable.

If you want to learn about physics, fine. Buy some text books and dig in. Why force yourself down a provably blind alley?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:37 am PostPost subject:
exco
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 190

Reply with quote

Anyhow, spending your time trying to build a PPM and gaining 1st hand knowledge is far more better than watching TV-Networks pumping sewage into your house.

Thats a matter of opinion. Both are a waste of time, appeal only to idiots, but sitting in front of the telly damages the environment less that expensive, complex chasing after the unattainable.

If you want to learn about physics, fine. Buy some text books and dig in. Why force yourself down a provably blind alley?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:47 am PostPost subject:
Joh70
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: South-Germany

Reply with quote

When both is a waste of time, it really makes me wonder, why people like you waste their time HERE in free-energy-forums in writing always same word-rich useless comments. That must be an idiot! Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:29 pm PostPost subject:
Thicket
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 118

Reply with quote

I always find it funny when believers question why skeptics stick around. I guess believers would like to live undisturbed in their woo woo world of self-delusion and don't like getting cold water splashed in their faces by people telling them how dumb they are.

They call us idiots for not leaving, in a futile attempt to cavort merrily tripping through fluffy cumulus clouds defying natural laws without the smirks of derision from the skeptics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:33 pm PostPost subject:
maryyugo
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 114

Reply with quote

@alsetalokin

Hi. Any luck locating the possible juror-uncle? Doesn't he have some sort of communications, if only for urgent matters?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
Post new topic Reply to topic FizzX.org Forum Index | Skeptics, sceptics, and Cynics
View previous topic
View next topic
Display posts from previous:   




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum