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Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:23 pm PostPost subject: Some quotes to pass the quiet summer time
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Unlike I expected before, the 'corpse just keeps on twisting', and as long as neither the investors nor the police pull the plug, I will incidentally update this thread.
Steorn has become very silent in both the public forum as in the spud hangout (as confirmed by eman8) and this stimulates the creative minds. Some quotes to pass the quiet summer time:

Form the Steorn forum, posted by 'AIEMA':

My most likely scenario at the moment is maybe Sean has seen the light and is wondering how to extricate himself. These forums really mean nothing to the business of Steorn however much we flatter ourselves (and some of us do, even more so the SPDC members), if anything this one is going to put off potential partners, customers, investors and existing shareholders.

Why then was Sean so convinced before this. I think maybe his own initial belief sprung from one of his own engineers who thought he was onto something, perhaps embellished the results (unwittingly even, that happens all the time in drug trials etc which is why we have double blind tests) then couldn't back down all the time believing he was "almost there, just a more efficient array etc".

The pretence had to be kept up once Sean took in investment and went public at which point to continue the original engineer really had to fabricate results which would explain why it couldn't be done outside their own lab. Sean built it up even more claiming, inter alia, 550bhp, 0.5W per cc, that they had made the machine work in Faraday cages and a vacuum chamber (in answer to my own questions - seems really hard to believe now they ran the whole thing in a vacuum chamber) etc etc. It then became like a case of the emperor's New Clothes. The Emperor (Sean) believed it, the rogue engineer told him how great it looked, and everyone else in the company got swept along. Maybe it took more than one engineer to be in on it but that wouldn't be the first time senior employees faked results to get paid, it happens in the biggest companies.

In this scenario, Sean is still the genuine guy who had a real belief, it was him who was misled. If he now realizes this, he would not dare let on to the forum before he has exhausted all other possibilities, both technical and with explaining to his investors.


Not very new, but once more a scenario where Sean is innocent, and this time the delusion was purposely created by one or more senior employees. Which is supported by the next quote (about another quote):

What about Sean saying that they've been testing this for three/four years?
Sean only sees what they show him, in fact I remember him telling us once how they liked to keep him out of the room while they set it up - hilarious with hindsight!


Great quote. Problem with this scenario is that they told us it was Michael Daly himself who discovered the technology. Daly and Sean own 60% of the Steorn shares and I just cannot accept the hypothetical scenario with Daly as evil genius and Sean as innocent puppy. They are in it together.


Another post by (a frustrated) forum member 'almost':

I would like McCarthy to explain why, in view of the horrible letdown of people who travelled thousands of miles to see an Orbo demonstration, he hasn't posted a video of the machine. He can at least post it privately to his loyal supporters in the SPUD - supporters who vociferously castigated a member who queried whether the Nodding Donkey prototype had Orbo inside, and were made to look foolish by their trust when after a considerable delay Shaun revealed that it didn't. Another 550bhp example, albeit not so egregious since the delay in Shaun's confession was less than the 6 weeks of the big engine.

About the spud buddies:

They naturally assumed it was Orbo powered cos it was a prototype of the 100,000 toys that are going to be sold. Only another donkey is going to buy a donkey that is not Orbo powered. McCarthy should have stated outright that the machine had an ordinary electric motor and battery inside and not let his acolytes jump to the understandable conclusion that the nodding donkey was powered by free energy.

Well, I didn't know about a Nodding Donkey shaped toy.

At least it once more supports the theory that Steorn never were able to demonstrate a functioning device. But again they didn't try to fake it by using a hidden battery. They can still hide behind ignorance. We're talking real professionals this time.

For now, I predict there will never be a public demo of an apparently running Orbo device (the prediction they would never have a successful demo of OU was made a long time ago).
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Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:30 pm PostPost subject: It is a scam
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It has been almost one month since the non-happening of the Steorn public demo of an Orbo powered OU device at the Kinetica museum in London.

My conclusion after that demo was that the core Steorn team suffered from a serious case of self delusion (and I was not the only one to come to that conclusion). This conclusion was based upon public expressions of Steorn in general and Sean specifically, together with public financial information. The reality check of that humiliating failure in London should have woken up the share-holders, the (non-executive) management and the employees at Steorn. In fact, I did expect the company to disintegrate within a few days after the failure.

It seems that such thing did not happen.

Until the last few days I still had some naïve believe in Steorn as a group of ‘good guys’ that in all ignorance really thought to have discovered some special technology. Together with some dot-com experience in playing the media and some old friends that knew how to professionally raise investment money they were going to build an extremely valuable brand name. The fact that the technology just doesn’t work, which by now should be obvious to all involved, should have broken the magic of the delusion. It would in any normal organization result in some public announcements and the breaking up of the company. By showing a professional ending with good care for the employees, the management and investors would even rebuild some public credits (instead of just losing face for being the fool of the year).

But this is not happening.

In my opinion the only reason for the continued existence of Steorn has to be a very good and very convincing ‘story’ from the two directors towards the share-holders and the employees. And it has to be a much better story then the outside world (including the spud-buddies) was told, because that story was crap. Somewhere last month the Steorn company activities transformed in my opinion from delusional ignorance towards professional scam.

They did a remarkable job in creating a company that from all sides looked like the real thing. Their financial, market and legal strategy (like focusing on a branding and IP, not on technology) were exactly the ones to follow when to make the most possible profit of the fictional technology while being such a small company. The expensive and professional partners for the financial and marketing consult also helped in painting a very believable picture. The internet activities should be seen in relation with modern marketing methods and the creation and building of brand-names.

It must have been planned like this from the start in 2004. First they had to convince an ‘inner circle’ like the other early share-holders of Steorn of the technology. Then in the first funding round (that brought only 500k) the early investors were to be convinced. These funds were used to hire more professionals (and create some demo materials) to convince the next (more serious) funding rounds. After that they had to build up a physical company and a whole team of employees were to be doing useful work without knowing in detail about the technology itself. Meanwhile they also had to make sure enough financial resources were allocated towards themselves in a legally correct manner.

They always knew exactly which lines not to cross to be able to win any possible legal action against them. They never showed a working device, because it would proof they faked OU. They never made hard claims that could be used in court. Sometimes they (or should I say Sean) made some stupid statement, but these errors have always been taken care of in later explanations. They acted as slippery as eels in a bowl of snot, never to lose the opportunity of being able to play the ignorance card.

From this scenario I predict two things:
1) Steorn will survive until the end of 2007
2) Steorn will never show a running Orbo powered device (and certainly not a faked one!)

I must also express my respect for the ones behind this scam. The job has been executed extremely well until now (don’t make any stupid mistakes in the end phase please). I believe and sincerely also hope there will never be a criminal conviction. This should be a lesson for all future investors.


Comment was posted using an infra-red connected antique Nokia 6310i over an often failing GPRS signal from some hardly civilized Mediterranean island
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Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:44 am PostPost subject:
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As far as the London demo is concerned, I am convinced that Steorn knew beforehand that the demo was going to be a failure. Why else would they want to hide the date of the demonstration from the main forum, even to the extent of Seamus inciting two members of the SPUD to spread lies about the date, lies which Crank passed off as just a bit of fun.

They wanted as few people there as possible since they knew they were going to have to cope with a lot of frustrated Spudders. They didn't want main forum members there as well, people who would have been far less sympathetic at be enticed half way round the world for a fiasco.

The fact that McCarthy was so ready to meet with the SPUD later in the week also suggests that he knew in advance that the demo was going to fail - indeed, even worse, not even get to the starting blocks.
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:49 am PostPost subject:
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I expect you are right, but I find your condemnatory tone rather hard to understand, given that you have stated on several occasions that perpetual motion is possible, that you have a theoretical basis for its existance and that a working model is just simple engineering.

Despite large quantities of hot air, your output is exactly the same as steorns.

Nothing at all of substance.
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:22 pm PostPost subject:
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exco wrote:
I expect you are right, but I find your condemnatory tone rather hard to understand, given that you have stated on several occasions that perpetual motion is possible, that you have a theoretical basis for its existence and that a working model is just simple engineering.

Despite large quantities of hot air, your output is exactly the same as Steorn's.

Nothing at all of substance.

Not so. I have publications on my ideas. Steorn have none. The fact you can't be bothered to investigate them is your problem. Razz
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:59 pm PostPost subject:
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Where?

Peer reviewed?

Maybe they're worth a look. (I am an optimist)
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:16 am PostPost subject:
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Indeed. Throw us a link...
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Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:16 pm PostPost subject:
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A deafening silence to our polite request for these published papers.
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Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:57 pm PostPost subject:
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exco wrote:
A deafening silence to our polite request for these published papers.


http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Beta-atmosphere_group/

Where in the FILE SECTION of that site (not the posts, note) you will find copies of the publications, etc., and more than you ever wanted to know about materials being held together from without rather than from within.
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Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:29 pm PostPost subject:
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Well, I really do not want to join the beta atmospheres group, thank you. Without doing so, I can't access the references.

Perhaps you'd be better just posting a list of refereed papers on the subject of perpetual motion.
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Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:03 pm PostPost subject:
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You can't be bothered. That says it all doesn't it.

It's not as though it costs anything above a minimal amount of effort to join. Once you have read the files you can resign. And the subject is not perpetual motion as you well know but Iterative Hierarchical Mechanics.

You are a waste of space, exco, and are now on my ignore completely list.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:50 am PostPost subject:
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Why wont I join?

Because I really don't want to swell the ranks of 'members' of your daft site. Beta atmospheres, gamma atmospheres and all the rest of the nonsense. It will be interesting to see what happens when you reach omega atmospheres.

If you have any relevant publications in refereed journals, then why the hell don't you simply post a list - or even one or two here. I have no intention of joining any site where I have to plough through reams of the sort of rubbish you generally talk.

Either post a list, or not. I don't really care much what you do.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:34 am PostPost subject:
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Devoid of any list from grimer, I went a-looking, and found a paper he'd written in a thing called the 'Journal of Theoretics' I doubt that its peer-group reviewed except by fellow nutters, judging by the stuff therein.

The grimer work I found claimed in the first paragraph to explain time using information theory. Fair enough.

The second paragraph read:

Consider a discrete source of information consisting of a single binary channel which can take the value 1 or 0. Suppose the maximum speed with which it can change its state is one change per unit of time. Suppose that its physical dimension in some given direction is one unit of length.

Now this is, to me, meaningless as well as ambiguous. A 'Channel' in information theory doesn't have physical dimension. But grimer is unworried by such niceties, and goes on to conclude that time and length are identical, and by shrinking or expanding length we can move bachwards and and forwards through time.

There is more supporting bollocks for this 'argument' including the wondrous conclusion that in the case of a pendulum, time moves forward when it is rising, and backwards when it is falling! That pendula are used in clocks, and these clocks are unlikely to work very well if the pendulum is jerking time forwards and backwards like the AC mains seems not to have impinged on the grimer consciousness. Probably facts cannot penetrate the gamma atmosphere he seems to live in. Indeed, this may be the sole property of the gamma atmosphere.

If your other papers consist of similar undiluted pretentious twaddle I suggest it is very wise of you to keep them hidden from public view the way you do.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:52 pm PostPost subject:
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Fookin elll!

I don't think I've ever seen so much waffle before, who are you trying to convince, yourself or others?

I believe Steorn did stumble on an anomaly, unfortunately they jumped the gun, got in investments, put up the ad, all before they realized the anomaly could not be exploited.

If my theory is correct, then they deserve what they get.

Here on FizzX I can say it, there is no 100,000 Orbo powered devices, there is no start/sop device producing excess energy, there is no continuous motion device giving excess energy, all they have is an observed anomaly, put your cash back in your wallets!
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:09 pm PostPost subject:
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Hi RB.

It would make more sense that Steorn *thought* they stumbled upon an anomaly. Then when they had all those millions of investor euros and found out they could not make an overunity device, they decided to continue anyway motivated either out of fraud or self delusion or some unholy combination of both.

You have to remember that there is now and has never been the slightest evidence that any anomaly was discovered other than "Sean said". Sean had every opportunity to present anomalies to scientists who went to Kinetica from all over the world. He had a semi-private meeting with them the day after the failed demo. He talked for hours but according to what we can hear in videos and read from people who were there including Dr. Mike, none of it made any sense. For sure, nothing done or said at those meetings suggested *any* anomaly or that any other interesting discovery had been made by Steorn.

If you know about some real evidence of an anomaly, please let us in on it! That would be a lot more interesting that reading about the personality clashes on the Steorn forum.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:53 pm PostPost subject:
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Hi mary
As I said, mine is a theory
It's based on the fact that I cannot see this being any kind of scam, it's too damn messy!

But getting yourself into deep HOT water, like telling investors you have the answer before varification does explain some things to me, obviously I can only hold onto this theory for so long, if Steorn does not give any answer then I would have to follow your line of thinking, I'm not ready to call deliberate fraud yet.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:59 pm PostPost subject:
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Who cares whether its a scam or not?

For my money, the man is too stupid to realise the implications of his original claim, and as a good salesman will, bullshitted to one and all in the hope that the situation might improve right up until the whole thing collapsed.

They have nothing to demonstrate. It's was all a totally unrealistic dream. Get used to this fact and move on to something else.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:04 pm PostPost subject:
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Quote:

Who cares whether its a scam or not?



The law? The investors? Someone should! I am under no illusion that prosecuting Steorn (if indeed it turns out to have been a deliberate scam) will solve the constant stream of "free energy" whackos and crooks but it might help a little.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:05 pm PostPost subject:
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Quote:

They have nothing to demonstrate. It's was all a totally unrealistic dream. Get used to this fact and move on to something else.


After you bud, I quite like it around here Twisted Evil
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:28 pm PostPost subject:
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After you bud, I quite like it around here

No great grasp on the concept of metaphors, clearly.
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Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:32 pm PostPost subject:
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exco wrote:
After you bud, I quite like it around here

No great grasp on the concept of metaphors, clearly.


I got it

Obviously no concept of humor Cool
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Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:40 pm PostPost subject: "The probable truth about Sean and Steorn is Ugly."
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Here is a copy of a post of Steorn forum member Qweevox with title "The probable truth about Sean and Steorn is Ugly". It is not about a new theory, but I like the very clear and well written message.

It does amaze me that ANYONE would invest money in this…whatever IT is. However, one shouldn’t assume that all wealthy people are smart. What seems like a lot of money to the average person is pocket change to some eccentric millionaires. So, I wouldn’t say that someone investing in Steorn at this point adds creditability to “THE CLAIM”. It just proves P.T. Barnum right, “There’s a sucker born every minute”.

It also proves Sean has reneged on another pre-validation promise not to take in additional investments. I suppose we can add the latest events to a very long list of false claims. His claim that they had a working Orbo, that they already had a post-release demonstration product in production, that a Jury was working to validate their claim, that Steorn would provide meaningful updates, that the July Demo would be held in the United States and Great Brittan, that a working device would be displayed, that…hell…the list goes on… and on, all false, misleading, or failed.. In fact, I can’t think of one thing Sean has followed through on. Do the poor African’s have a water pump...powered by ANYTHING? What where the pictures of test rigs, and the thing under the stairs since Steorn has now said that they have no working demo. What product, or blueprint, did Crank see. What was “The Frenchman” ranting about? Was it all an act?

At one time a post this critical would get you banned from this board. I minded my P’s and Q’s, but enough is enough. I'm an old timer here, been on this board since August of 2006. Sean, if you read this forum I have to be honest and say either Dr. Mike, (as well as others) is correct in his assessment that you are delusional. That’s really the nicest assumption one could make at this point. I think Dr. Mike was being nice.

If you’re not delusional then one can only assume you are a conman. I see no real middle ground at this point in the game. If you and your team made an honest mistake you would have come clean by now. You certainly wouldn’t have accepted additional investment capitol. I just hope the investors have very deep pockets, because they’re going to lose their investment.

It’s a shame really. That extra million or so could have built several wells, pumps, and irrigation systems in Africa, instead of supporting this continued fantasy. Imagine what kinds of altruistic activities 14-16 million Euros could have accomplished. Instead they gave you the money…and...you've produced nothing.

What have you done with it? You took out an expensive ad in the Economist. You rented a building for a demo, had some posters made. You keep this website going. You’ve drawn a salary, paid a handful of employees who will end up with nothing more then a blotch on their resume when this end. There was that cute Hobbit hat video, and the pictures of you shaving your head. I supposed a lot of pints have been bought on the investors tab. You did throw that party, and produce some shirts. The one thing, ONE THING, you where supposed to do you failed to do.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, that's true today, and it will be true tomorrow.

The delusional Steorn management theory is becoming less and less acceptable. The future will tell a story about conman and their merciless scam.
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:43 pm PostPost subject:
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Well, ping. It looks like our efforts to breathe life into this forum aren't amounting to much.

FizzX has fizzled.
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:10 pm PostPost subject:
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Maybe I'm a bit overconfident ...

(edit: now I also have three stars!)
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:17 pm PostPost subject:
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It's Aliiiiive....

Seems like many have joined, but few are posting.

A shame, since we have a roll-eyes smiley... Rolling Eyes
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Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:41 pm PostPost subject:
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Well, what's to post about? What has Steorn done worth notice since their dismal idiocy of a performance, last July?
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Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:09 pm PostPost subject:
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I have a hard time believing Steorn hasn't broken any laws at this point. You can't go posting to the world screaming that you have a magic energy machine, take in millions of dollars, then at the end say you made a mistake and just go home pocketing your seven years worth of an executive salary.

Someone please tell me what Irish or International laws they have broken? You can't tell me that a guy can chart a wobble in a spinning shaft, an anomalous effect, into millions of dollars. Are you people telling me that Sean sat their watching an anomalous reading on a computer screen (caused by an off-center spinning shaft) and he convinced people to give him millions of dollars for it. And he WON"T go to jail over it. Can you really do that in today's world and get away with it?
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Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:40 pm PostPost subject:
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But as Yogi said, "It ain't over till the fat lady sings"...

(Who's that doing warmups backstage...?)
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Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:54 pm PostPost subject:
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What I think is great Al is that you and OC have come up with your own discovery that is very interesting and may just eclipse Steorn. It is possible if someone of any weight (university department, independent lab, etc.) decides to test your new device that they may find that the "artifact" is something new and innovative. You two guys could get all the attention with Steorn left completely out in the cold (as they should be). Who would care about Steorn when they have just lied and procrastinated for the last year and a half? They have showed NOTHING. You on the opposite hand are conducting yourself like a real compassionate human being by openly providing information on a potential discovery. You see the bigger picture weather you know it or not...Steorn thinks ONLY of themselves. People don't like them. Steorn don't realize yet that they have made themselves a joke. At this point in time (especially since you and OC made your own machine) no one wants to care about Steorn. Would that little plastic "thingy" that Sean showed in July be impressive now if it spun....no...who cares if it spins I already saw AL & OC's machine spin, anything that follows would be anti-climatic...especially that pathetic plastic "thingy". I don't care about Steorns plastic "thingy". Plastic like Sean’s thought processes. Steorn is selfish and only thinks about their pocket books. They DO NOT care if they ignore the people whose attention they screamed for when making all these public announcements. They have TURNED THEIR BACKS ON THE PUBLIC. But not you Al, you and OC have come through.
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Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:27 am PostPost subject:
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If the down of Steorn is not temporary this time, they have been burning cash at a rate that is much higher than even I expected.

Nice to be back on Fizz.
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