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design and build

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Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:22 am PostPost subject: design and build
breeze
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Ok all, first let me formally introduce myself. My name is jim (AKA Breeze) and I have been personally working on PMM designs for the last 2 years in my spare time. I have 24 years experience in the Mechanical and Manufacturing industry. I have designed and made anything from a Black and Decker Drilsl to Patriot Missle radars. Not bragging, just stating that if it can be made I can do it. I have access to a full high precision tool room with full design capabilities.
I am more than willing to throw my hat in to help get this going. I have made many attempts in the last 2 years and have learned a lot from them, and believe me, getting thru the COG is the big ticket.Smile If cog can be reduced, the net gain is a plus. So to anyone interested, let me know your thoughts, and maybe we can discuss further possibilities at this attemt. I would love to figure this out just to do it. It is mechanical like Sean says, we just need to be collective on the data, and determine the best course of action to start.

Breeze
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:39 am PostPost subject:
babcat
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Hello Breeze,

Thanks so much for joining our forum. I sincerely appreciate your willingness to help out!

Right now, in my mind there are three possibilities when it comes to what's at work in the Steorn technology.

1) The LEMA is responsible.
2) A certain arrangment of permanent magnets with no shielding whatsoever is responsible.
3) Permanet magnets with *something* else we have know clue about is responsible.

The LEMA is exciting because the concept seems very strait forward. Just use some of the power of the rotor's movement to power a cam or something to move the shielding at exact moments.

Basically, what we would need to do is build as exact of a replication of a LEMA as possible and try to figure out a mechanical mechnism to move the shield of the LEMA back and fourth using AS LITTLE ENERGY AS POSSIBLE.

Would you be willing to help us figure out a way to create the LEMA and the mechanism to move the shield?

Also, if the LEMA is not at all involved and no shielding is used like Sean McCarthy claims (trust me, I tremendously want to believe him) then of course the LEMA could still produce an overunity device (we should still replicate it) but we might be able to come up with a configuration of magnets that allows one to get past the sticky point.

By the way, when you say COG do you mean sticky point?

Again, I want to say thank you for your willingness to help. If we can construct a small, simple, and easy to replicate device that others around the world could replicate then the whole paradigm of science will be flipped upside down, shaken, and then put on a new path.
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:30 am PostPost subject:
breeze
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Hi Babcat.

Yes Cog is the sticky point. It takes much more energy to overcome cog than what is gained in the push. I'll try and explian as simply as possible an easy test to see this.
Secure a small magnet to a shaft of wood plastic etc and have it mounted to a base with a dowel or pin so it spins freely like the hands of a clock. For now the angle the mag is attached is not important. Now just outside the dia. this mag spins on you ca nhold a second mag in repulse to the mounted one.As you turn the arm you cen feel it come into the cog position. I have been experimenting with many different types of mags, strengths, and angle configs trying to determine the best angle for entry and exit. It takes about 3 mags in full push position to overcome one cog. Hope this helps a little, and one of the clues from Sean is the non circular orbits I believe he said at one time. And believe me, I think the software may help with this one. The field from a 1/4 X 1/2 mag alone is far bigger than I had originally thought Smile
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:38 am PostPost subject:
breeze
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TO Babcat Re Lema.

I was wondering about this cam mechanism when listening to that test piece operate. The small increments it moves vrs. the sound of the rotations ? ?
It does sound like it could be a mechanical kick being used to overcome the cog, but if this is the case, what we are being told about slowing down when the mags push seems wrong. When the mags repell this can cause great acceleration, but the cog point slows it. Now a mechanical kick assisting the bypass of cog, seems to make more sense to me. Then a throttle would need to be used as well to maintain rpm's. I have many more theories to what they are doing, jsut need more caffeine to wake up right now.
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:37 pm PostPost subject:
clovis ray20
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breeze
if a rotor wheel with mag's be made to spin then could a stepper motor be configured to turn in reverse and control speed.
plus gen some power at the same time
and that power via a battery be used to control a servo to move a shield.
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:45 pm PostPost subject:
breeze
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clovis ray20 wrote:
breeze
if a rotor wheel with mag's be made to spin then could a stepper motor be configured to turn in reverse and control speed.
plus gen some power at the same time


I'm not sure on the capabilities of the stepper motors, thats not my forte, but maybe someone else here would know ? But I also remember Steorn saying the smallest device they had made was 1 cubic cm. I highly doubt they have stepper motors or servos that small. And they say, the device is scaleable. Again, another intersection to choose...
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:58 pm PostPost subject:
clovis ray20
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although i have not try it. but it seem logical that if you have at least 3or4 points pushing against one cog point that would be enough to get by it.and with strong enough mag's to produce even a few hp's it might just work.with the above apparatus to control the speed.
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:04 pm PostPost subject:
clovis ray20
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breeze

it would seem first to get a working model and then try to make it smaller.


Last edited by clovis ray20 on Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:19 pm PostPost subject:
avid_engineer
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breeze:

Do you recall where you read about Steorn's 1 cubic cm device? Thats quite interesting to me, and i would speculate that this may have been their very first attempt. i.e. a micro generator modified to be more 'efficient' Smile

If they can make them that small then the principles must really be quite simple.
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:37 pm PostPost subject:
breeze
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I didn't read it. It was an mp3 file that someone had linked to on the steorn forum. The radio interviewer by phone conversation asked what the smallest was and Sean said 1 cubic cm. I don't have it bookmarked here at work but may have it at home. I will post the link later if I find it.
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Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:03 pm PostPost subject:
WhiteLite
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You can find the mp3 interview and other sources of info here:

http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?t=5
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Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:48 am PostPost subject:
breeze
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Thanks WhiteLite.. Very Happy
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Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:40 am PostPost subject:
babcat
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These are my thoughts on the subject.

Steorn has stated that their current technology does not utilize the LEMA or magnetic shielding. It's supposed to simply be a rotor with magnets interacting with other magnets on the stator with trajectories that do not have to be a circle.

He has also said that the devices are as small as a fingernail and they have scaled it up to about one meter.

I think that the device's principle must be fairly simple and not complicated.

Now, I think the LEMA is something we should try to build too, but for the average person trying various configurations of magnets to get past the sticky point would be an easier way for those that don't have tons of tools or the know how to build complicated mechanisms.

My guess is that if we play around long enough we will find a configuration of permanent magnets for the rotor, stator, or both that interact in such a way that more energy is gained while moving the rotor in one direction than when moving it in the opposite direction. But the key is going to be manipulating the flux.

Let me ask all of you something. How useful is the magnetic viewing film that is sold on so many magnet websites? Do you think it would be a useful tool for detecting the magnetic flux at sticky points and finding ways around it or through it?

By the way Breeze, it's great to have someone with your background here on the forum.
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Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:25 am PostPost subject:
breeze
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THanks Babcat.
Re the film, save your money.

On a 1/4 X 1/2 PM for example, the film will show the field about 1/2 inch extending jsut as a black blur. WHen really measurable force can be seen 2 " away. So it really does not give fine enough detail. Great for kids in school to see the basics, but thats about it.
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