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Corpse still twitching.

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Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:51 pm PostPost subject: Corpse still twitching.
exco
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Couldn't resist a peek at the steorn forum. Clearly they are in a state of shock, but many still cling to the hope that it might work one day...!

In particular the gamma atmosphere man, grimer, (evidently after taking a deep breath of this remarkable substance) claims the "One thing is certain!. It has been proved that CoE can be broken!" I must have missed this proof, alas. Anyway he has swep' aht' of the spudbrained group in disgust. Another joker has posted that he is 'totally convinced' that Steorn has something.

Never mind, chaps. Maybe somebody dropped a decimal point. Let's all gather again next Tuesday at dawn. Maybe the world will end then. Indeed, I'm totally convinced that it will end at dawn next tuesday....
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:00 am PostPost subject:
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Yes, quite the dark cloud looming over Steorn and the forums. I wouldn't declare them dead just yet -- I'd check every couple weeks or so for the next few months before I sign the death certificate.

Steorn has suffered a mighty blow, but I think they'll go at least another round.

Stick around skeptics, we'll be needing you.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:17 am PostPost subject:
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"Stick around skeptics, we'll be needing you."

I don't think so. The company is generating more sceptics than energy at the moment. There is no shortage!

As to going another round, I doubt that too. They will never demonstrate a working model for one excellent reason. They cannot get it to work.

As to the 'jury' I have yet to see evidence that there really is one. I guess it's more plausible than the perpetual motion machine in that the existence of this shadowy bunch does not break any physical laws, but I'm very sceptical.

Not only can they not demonstrate a working machine, they have failed to field anyone who claims to have SEEN a working machine. Not even the chief leprachaun himself has given a direct answer to the question "Have you got a working machine?"

Another round? Don't make me laugh. We've not really had a first round yet. This is the end.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:03 am PostPost subject:
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The Steorn saga continues to interest me. It is both entertaining and a great study in human behaviour.

I'm now convinced that there isn't a functioning jury. Sure, Steorn sent out some letters, made some promises and picked some people. This all happened early on. Any competent scientist on the jury would see the July farce and would completely write off Steorn.

A functioning jury evaluating the Steorn technology is another Sean lie.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:05 pm PostPost subject:
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Thicket wrote:
A functioning jury evaluating the Steorn technology is another Sean lie.


Maybe alsetalokin can clear this up for once. He knows one of the jurors.

Probably there was a jury (or jury initiative) once, but has it been blown months ago. And I can understand the scientists involved don't want their names to be linked with Steorn, but some anonymous comment would suffice for now. It's the last straw that’s left of Steorn's diminishing credibility.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:19 pm PostPost subject:
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@drichardson

You said:
Quote:
Yes, quite the dark cloud looming over Steorn and the forums. I wouldn't declare them dead just yet -- I'd check every couple weeks or so for the next few months before I sign the death certificate.

Steorn has suffered a mighty blow, but I think they'll go at least another round.

Stick around skeptics, we'll be needing you.

As an engineer, before any mechanical demonstration, I will have tested, retested and retested again before I even scheduled the demo. Then I would have tested every reasonable environmental variation I could imagine long in advance of the scheduled demo. Nothing would be left to chance, especially if the demo is critical and public.

I can see no purpose being served by a public failure of a long-touted demonstration, especially when it’s initially blamed on “heat from camera lights” (a direct admission the machine is not robust), the excuse withdrawn and replaced with “we screwed up” on publicly available video (Engadget.com).

I can see no purpose being served by the “Scientific Jury’s” silence, assuming they found Steorn’s claims to be true after examining a functional model at length and in detail (six months?).

I can see no purpose being served by the SPDC’s silence on this failed demonstration. Have they not seen their promised demonstration on the already functional model?

I can see no purpose being served by the unwillingness/failure to publish scientific evidence supporting Steorn’s claims, assuming such exists, particularly after promising a working demonstration model authenticated by a “Scientific Jury" whose names and CVs were promised with this demo.

I can see no purpose being served by the mismanagement of Steorn’s public relations.

I can see no purpose being served by the verbal attack (Steorn forum) of “Crank” on “DrMike” concerning his alleged failure to keep to his NDA concerning information removed from the Steorn forum before it became publicly available.

I can see no purpose being served by not showing the working model claimed nearly a year ago.

I can see no purpose being served by the public drunken display of Sean McCarthy and the Steorn staff following the failure of the demonstration.

I’m sorry, but Steorn has been very publicly disgraced for no good reason I can understand. If the machine is a failure and there is no scientific evidence to back up their claims, then they should admit their failure like proper ladies and gentlemen, take their lumps with good grace, and let’s be on about our business.

Otherwise, they should publish the promised scientific documentation and Scientific Jury name list (it establishes prior art), and provide information concerning the patent applications. Once the applications are submitted, they predate and override any later patent applications, assuming they aren’t thrown out as banned PMMs as would later applications.

Failure to do otherwise, or continued secrecy, effectively implies fraudulent claims and provides current investors a route for legal redress, immediately and in the future.

Steorn needs to do something if they wish to continue.
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:53 am PostPost subject:
drichardson
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Wow, and I intended to say so little. What I meant to say is that Steorn aren't out of the spotlight yet. I wouldn't doubt at all if we see another "big media" event in the near future.

I'll keep watching, myself. This particular show isn't over.
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:20 am PostPost subject:
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Well, waboy, you can find a 'purpose' for most of the things you mention by sheer incompetance, the urge to cover their corporate arse, and the desire to keep the show on the road so that comfortable salaries can continue to be drawn.

One has to say, by the way, that if these people cannot arrange a straightforward demonstration of an allegedly working machine, then one begins to wonder if they are not stupid enough to fool themselves over the machine in the first place.
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:36 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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[quote="Ping1400"]
Thicket wrote:
A functioning jury evaluating the Steorn technology is another Sean lie.



Well, I can't really clear it up.
So it is possible that there is no jury at this time, even though I'm (relatively) certain that there was one, once.
One thing does seem quite certain, though--there isn't any Orbo.
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Last edited by alsetalokin on Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:17 pm PostPost subject: What Sean McCarthy said last August
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Times Online - August 28th 2006
"If I am proved wrong, this company is out of business and I will never work in this town again," he said.
Sean McCarthy
======================

I just thought it was time to remind the Steorn forum readers
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Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:05 pm PostPost subject: Re: What Sean McCarthy said last August
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maryyugo wrote:
Times Online - August 28th 2006
"If I am proved wrong, this company is out of business and I will never work in this town again," he said.
Sean McCarthy
======================

I just thought it was time to remind the Steorn forum readers


Maybe he has earned enough with Steorn to never work again?
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:13 pm PostPost subject: Corpse twitches some more
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More corpse twitches:

Three videos of a spinning toy and two new videos of Sean speaking at Kinetica during the "invitation only" sessions on Saturday (July 7) have been added to http://energynotfree.blogspot.com/

There is also a brief mention of Steorntracker and Energynotfree's blogs on http://randi.org/jr/2007-07/072707bashing.html#i1--that's the James Randi Foundation web page. Randi calls Orbo "that silly non-spinning wheel."


And it looks as if Steorn's censors (Magnatrix and Crank maybe?) are preventing anyone from posting the above links and discussion about them on any Steorn forum that I can find so far. Interesting that they have their noses so far up .... I mean that they are so faithful to Steorn.
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:34 pm PostPost subject:
Thicket
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The censoring on the Steorn forums is both funny and pathetic. While I don't profess to understand the mercurial mind machinations of Crank, Mags and other forum censors here are a few thoughts.

1. They are deluded that Steorn actually has some technology that needs to be protected and want to ensure that it doesn't get revealed on the Steorn forums.

2. The "invitation only" nature of the recorded sessions means that the beans have been spilled by an insider, possibly a Spud cult member. Cults are particularly sensitive to betrayals. There is likely some speculation on the betrayer's identity, possibly including the physical location of the recorder. The cult contract is the NDA and it appears to have been broken.

The funny and pathetic aspect is that there isn't anything to protect except a transparent fraudulent device that didn't even move during the demonstration.

The censorship also further separates the Steorn faithful from those that want physical evidence. Remember when Crank took pictures of the Steorn device and posted them? Similar evidence is now censored.
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:32 pm PostPost subject:
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@thicket

I agree with everything you wrote. Censored (as opposed to reasonably moderated) forums are the hallmarks of scams. Those "psychics" who make millions of dollars a year by pretending to "talk to the dead" are a perfect case in point. Almost all have internet forums and all the forums are heavily restricted and censored.

" There is likely some speculation on the betrayer's identity, possibly including the physical location of the recorder. "

I looked carefully at all the video several times and I fail to see how they can zero in on anyone. Lots of cameras were running in plain sight and everyone was constantly moving about and changing positions-- and who knows how many more cameras were hidden in people's clothing or glasses?
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Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:56 pm PostPost subject: Re: Corpse still twitching.
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[quote="exco"]Couldn't resist a peek at the Steorn forum. Clearly they are in a state of shock, but many still cling to the hope that it might work one day...!

In particular the gamma atmosphere man, Grimer, (evidently after taking a deep breath of this remarkable substance) claims the "One thing is certain!. It has been proved that CoE can be broken!" I must have missed this proof, alas. Anyway he has swep' aht' of the spudbrained group in disgust. Another joker has posted that he is 'totally convinced' that Steorn has something.
quote]

Interesting. Please can you give me the reference where I said "It has been proved that CoE can be broken." I certainly wouldn't have said it in relation to Steorn. With regards to Finsrud I do think that demonstrates energy can be mined from the Gamma-atmosphere or magnetosphere if you prefer. If you deny that there is such a thing as the magnetosphere then getting energy from something which is non-existent would indeed be the breaking of CoE. But since the magnetosphere does exist, then mining energy from it is not a breaking of CoE.

I believe there are good theoretical grounds to believe that what Steorn were attempting is possible and I put forward those reasons in my Spud Blog.

However, there is no credible evidence to suggest that, as yet, Steorn have achieved this most desirable outcome - and the longer time goes on the more it looks as though they have nothing and some other reasons have to be sought for the funny (peculiar, not ha-ha) way they have gone about things.
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:16 am PostPost subject:
exco
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You didn't say it in relation specifically to steorn. It was a general statement. Moreover it is one which you have reiterated here in the words

"I believe there are good theoretical grounds to believe that what steorn were attempting is possible"

What they were attempting was to break CofE. Indeed the web site says so.

As to your gamma atmosphere, I wish you the best of luck in you energy mining. But I will not take you seriously until you can actually produce energy from nowhere.

Elsewhere, you mention 'finsrud' as if this supports what you claim. But in fact it is little more than a non functional clock that is designed to run for a long time on stored mechanical energy. Even the designer and builder states that it is NOT a perpetual motion machine, and doesn't break any laws. He winds it up from time to time!

The world is full of nutters who claim that they have a theoretical proof that perpetual motion is possible, but it counts for nothing in practice. What counts is a practical, repeatable, demonstrable perpetual motion machine. Until you can produce such a thing, nobody is going to waste time looking for the flaws in the theory. This is hard work, some of the errors can be extremely hard to pin down, and why should anyone bother when the proof of the pudding - a machine based on the theory simply doesn't work.

In other words, put up or shut up.
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:15 am PostPost subject:
Frank
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[quote="exco"]

Quote:
What they were attempting was to break CofE. Indeed the web site says so.


What they were attempting was to mine a new source of energy - and that is what I meant as you well know. If you had ever bothered to do any research on my posts you would see that I was constantly castigating Steorn about his claim that he was "creating" energy ex nihilo and telling him he was an idiot if he thought he was breaking the law of the conservation of energy.

But you are clearly only interested in twisting people's words so I don't expect an apology. Steorn may have been a dissimulator but you are just dishonest.

Quote:
Even the designer and builder states that it is NOT a perpetual motion machine, and doesn't break any laws. He winds it up from time to time!


That's news to me. Reference please. Or is that just another one of your lies.
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:33 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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Here is a quote from this forum thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,18.0.html

------------------------------------

Finsrud, on the other hand has, and I have the utmost respect for him that he did not claim to acheive PM or overunity (he referred to it as a moving sculpture; art) and DID allow an outside party investigate it and they did find that it is expending a minute amount of energy and would eventually stop on it's own (they actually calculated the exact amount of energy it was expending to several decimal places) and everyone was and still is happy. But if you where to place it in a perfect vaccuum and put the ball on a frictionless track and replaced the bearings with magnetic bearings, it would keep going, but so would a toy top.


So are you just castigating steorn or are you castigating finsrud as well? A perpetual motion machine it certainly aint!
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:07 pm PostPost subject:
Frank
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You have selected one opinion which supports your view (though I do not see any reference to Finsrud winding it up from time to time) from that forum. I select another opinion which supports mine:

================================================
Bonsoir

I have a Norvegian K7 vid. about Reidar Finsrud.
This guy is a total genius (while not claiming being so).

Please stop thinking of 90% or 90,9 or 99,9 or 99.999 and so on... efficiency.
That is fearful skeptical gobbledegooks.

Harti_Berlin is right.
The efficiency of this device is far more than 100%.

Best
================================================

We will just have to agree to differ. Very Happy
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:13 pm PostPost subject:
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Frank, sometimes I wonder how you manage to put your shoes on in the morning. If Finsrud says it's not free energy, you don't believe him? It's a lovely device but there are inumerable places in it to hide batteries, drives, and so on and right in the center is a humongeous spring. Frank, you'd believe almost anything is free energy. If you'd been around when Tilley was busy scamming, you'd have fallen for it -- totally.
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:44 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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Well, he hasn't claimed its a perpetual motion machine. it is a piece of sculpture, and is beautifully made. But that does not make it perpetual motion.

Also, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If its efficiency really were over 100%, don't you think it would have been exploited by now? We would all have these things powering our houses, running our railways and all the rest of it.

You will note that this has NOT HAPPENED despite it having been around for some years now. Our society is extremely good at taking advantage of good technology. The fact that nobody has bothered to do so with this should lead you to the obvious conclusion that it is decorative rather than useful. The guy who built it is not claiming its a perpetual motion machine so why in the name of sweet baby moses on stilts should you?

I believe he's even published drawings of it on the internet. If there WERE anything in it, don't you think that someone - perhaps a dreamer like yourself - would have built one too? Nobody has, for the simple reason that it's little more than a clockwork toy.
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:44 pm PostPost subject:
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maryyugo wrote:
Frank, sometimes I wonder how you manage to put your shoes on in the morning. If Finsrud says it's not free energy, you don't believe him? It's a lovely device but there are innumerable places in it to hide batteries, drives, and so on and right in the center is a humongous spring. Frank, you'd believe almost anything is free energy. If you'd been around when Tilley was busy scamming, you'd have fallen for it -- totally.

I have not seen any evidence it is driven by a spring. Finsrud has not said it is driven by a spring. He doesn't claim it's free energy because he doesn't want the hassle. I shall continue to believe is free energy until there is incontrovertible proof that it isn't.

Why?

Because I rather believe and look naive if I'm wrong - than not believe and miss an opportunity of being the among the first to recognize a new truth. You could look at it as Pascal's Wager applied to science. Wink

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager[/url]
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:12 pm PostPost subject:
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Frank wrote: "I have not seen any evidence it is driven by a spring. Finsrud has not said it is driven by a spring. He doesn't claim it's free energy because he doesn't want the hassle. I shall continue to believe is free energy until there is incontrovertible proof that it isn't. "


I'm almost speechless after that. Mainly because I want to maintain some semblance of politeness! OK- moving on...

First, he wants to avoid the hassle? Oh yeah-- I'm sure you know what a hassle a Nobel Prize, billions of dollars thrown at you, and universal acclaim can be which, I am sure, is why you are keeping your free energy machines so well hidden.

As to Mr. Finsrud, his spring is in plain sight right in the very center of the device. Here-- see it for yourself... it's in the very center of this segment of the device in this cropped image:



How's about this Frank:

I'm going to continue to believe that you have stolen my invisible pink unicorn which went missing last week. Furthermore, I will continue to believe that you are hiding it in your garage until there is incontrovertible proof that you didn't.

I don't suppose that will help you see how counterproductive and bizarre your argument is but it was fun writing it!
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:28 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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Well, if I recall Pascal's Wager, this was a cowardly and mendacious piece of advice to suck up to god should he exist and your 'argument' is every bit as cowardly and mendacious as Pascal's. Certainly nothing to boast about.

You are, of course, free to believe what you like, but I'd say you are scraping the barrel with a vengence when you say finsrud simply can't be bothered with the hassle. The thing is a finely engineered machine with only one object - to run, entertainingly, for as long as possible on a given amount of energy. A piece of kinetic art, no more. He is after all a sculptor.

I note with some amusement finsrud's story of starting out to levitate an ashtray. When he found he could not do it, he incorrectly attibuted it to the 'chaotic nature of the fmagnetic fields' He'd have been a damn sight better looking at Earnshaw's simple and convincing proof that it was impossible. The theorem has been about I guess since the middle of the 19th century.
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