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Request for creating cynic skeptics forum subtopic

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Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:41 pm PostPost subject: Request for creating cynic skeptics forum subtopic
Ping1400
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In the Steorn forum is no longer room for the cynical skeptic.

I define the cynical skeptic as a person who refuses to even consider the possibility that Steorn really found a technology that breaks the law of CoE. Most probably with a scientific or engineering background and a curious nature (else no time would be spend on Steorn).

The cynical skeptic is following the discussion because he wants to know what the real story behind all is. He looks at it like an alternate reality game (like we used to do at university when we were young), and is intrigued by the players and their interaction.

Because the law of CoE is taken as a fact by the cynical skeptic, the claims of Steorn can only be a mistake or a lie. All holistic theories and scenario's are evaluated as long as perpetual motion is no part of it.

Two statements I personally believe:
1) Steorn have no OU technology
2) Steorn know that

The first one is logic result from my cynical skeptic viewpoint.
The second one is deducted from the fact that Steorn are way too professional to have made such monumental mistake.

From this position on the cynical skeptic can go two main directions:
1) It is a scam and they want to make a lot of money with it
2) It is not a scam, and for some reason a show is being performed

Both directions have their sub-plots and levels of success. I would like to have a forum subtopic for the cynical skeptics (like me) to post theories and discuss them. Just to see as the Steorn saga continuous who was right in the end. I will donate a nice bottle of 12 year old Irish whiskey to the poster who had the story right first, after it's unraveled!
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Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:28 pm PostPost subject:
avid_engineer
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Ping,

The forum here was setup primarily for a basis of discussion around replicating Steorn's technology. Not all of our members are technically minded, but most of us are here to learn something... if not how to produce free energy, then perhaps something about electronics and mechanics. I include myself in that category.

Personally i invite skeptics to join our discussions with open arms, but simply debating the existence of the technology is not enough. So for now, at least until an official update from Steorn on the jury process, i suggest we forget breaking CoE and focus on what we can learn from the science that is already well documented.... thats my view at least Smile

You are entitled to your opinions, you have made yourself very clear. So looking from your perspective, lets see what we can pick from the wreckage. Wink
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Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:18 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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Hello avid_engineer,

The subtitle of the FizzX.com title says: "The Steorn Replications Board". If it was about "Orbo replication" it would be purely technical oriented. But when discussing replications of Steorn, the subjects should also include all previous and future hoax and scam schemas. What can we learn from them? How to recognize them? - To enjoy (as a curious cynical skeptic) the academic challenge of unraveling the errors in the fabric of the company.

So lets lift this forum to a higher level and include the financial and psychological behaviour of the company as topics into the discussions (as in fact already has started looking at other threads). The problem with focussing on the 'well documented' science of Steorn it that there is so very little information available to discuss about. And from personal experience I know that even the most technical minded members have an opinion on how Steorn is behaving weird (or different) compared to any other company they know.

So avid_engineer, lets put on your cynics hat, forget about OU, and try to win a nice bottle of Irish whiskey! Wink


(NB. I know FizzX was started once as a place for the believers of the Steorn claims to continue the discussions in case Steorn would be 'shut down' by evil men. Right now it is slowly becoming the place for the skeptics to continue the discussion in case they were banned from the Steorn public forum or when the solicitors of Steorn threaten to close down other skeptic forums. As we know the host of FizzX is closely related to Steorn, and I hope this will not effect the new awakening of FizzX. Thanks for hosting this forum.)
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Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:15 pm PostPost subject:
avid_engineer
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Ping,

I can assure you that our original intention (about 10 of us from Steorn.com) was to set up a forum, not moderated by Steorn, and free of all the daily crap where we could easily discuss our theories and ideas relating to the technical nature of Steorn's technology... replications referring to technological understanding at sufficient level to reproduce lab experiments. At the time of this forum opening, the name Orbo hadn't been announced and Steornator Replications Board doesn't have the same ring to it Smile

Perhaps others will chime in here and back me up, or correct me.

I think we have achieved as much as we can in that area at this point in time, due to lack of information. Therefore i am pleased that others can continue interesting discussions here and keep the forum alive with a variation on the content.

It seems to me that people who have blind faith in claims of a 'free lunch' will only have themselves to blame if they go hungry. If Steorn's claim ever turns out to be a hoax im sure many will learn a valuable lesson that cannot be learned any other way, and that new venue's of discussion will be spawned for debriefing. lol.

You should know...

I don't have a skeptics hat.
I don't have a believers hat.
I do own a hat, and it has Guiness printed across the front.
I don't see how wild speculation is considered a 'higher level' than science.
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:43 am PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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Well Ping
"ask and you shall receive" Very Happy

Discussion took place and permission for a "skeptics' forum" was granted;
so I just created one. Enjoy!
( Admins: feel free to edit my topic over-view... I tend to be "wordsy" sometimes...lol)
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:58 am PostPost subject:
exco
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If you wish to do this, I suggest you fly to a dictionary to check whether sceptic or skeptic is the correct spelling.

It would appear that nobody on the steorn forum owns one, alas.
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:18 am PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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exco wrote:
If you wish to do this, I suggest you fly to a dictionary to check whether sceptic or skeptic is the correct spelling.


If I may choose, I prefer the 'skeptic' version. Otherwise there are to many c's when combined with the word cynical. Wiki prefers skeptic too and Google will link to the skeptic pages when searching for sceptic.

Ping's playground!
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:53 am PostPost subject:
Thicket
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Cool... a skeptic/sceptic forum. Smile

When it comes to spelling sceptic/skeptic, I'm a fence-sitter. (Does that mean that this post is in the wrong section? Wink )
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:01 pm PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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I did check the dictionary.
Both spellings are correct.

Skeptic is used mostly in North America

Sceptic is mostly used in Europe.

I thought is would be "nice" to include everyone, by using both spellings Rolling Eyes
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:17 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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To the best of my knowledge, Dublin, and indeed the rest of Ireland is in Europe, and the correct spelling here is 'sceptic'.

I believe as this alleged invention is Irish we should use 'sceptic'. Had it been an american alleged invention, then I would have suggested adopting 'skeptic'.
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:30 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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I'm against the ghettoisation of sceptics in their own forum.

For one thing, it has resulted in a number of sceptical threads being removed from the general forum, leaving that one to degenerate into a 'believer's forum'.

Having two separate boards like this is hardly a sensible way of promoting debate between the two camps, which is surely what everyone wants.

It's exactly the same thing as sceptics being banned from the steorn forum, and look at the state of it now!

I think all the threads removed with such unholy haste should be put back at once.
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:43 pm PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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I'm not sure which Admin did that,
but it seems to me that he/she was trying to be helpful, by putting a
"collection" together.
( Ease of use; to find all relevant posts in one section) Very Happy
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:38 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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I can see how sheer bulk of contributions (well, maybe not here) might make it necessary to adopt some form of specialisation.

Thus if you had a car discussion board, there might be groups interested in engines, and others with bodies and separating these might be justifiable.

This is very different however, from separating groups who are FOR cars, from those who are AGAINST them. Yet this is precisely what has been done here.

I have no doubt it was done with good intentions, but nevertheless if this is supposed to be a discussion group in which both sides are (hopefully) able to learn from the views of the other, separation seems a very silly thing indeed to do.

Move the threads back to where they came from and close the Sckeptics ghetto down please.
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:46 pm PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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Crying or Very sad waaa.. I want a forum for skeptics

Crying or Very sad waaa.. I don't like the new forum for skeptics

Laughing

you can please some people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time Rolling Eyes


Arrow plus you assume that whomever moved those posts has any idea of where to put them back
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:44 pm PostPost subject:
WhiteLite
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I moved them and I will not be moving them back.

You should be thankful. None of the admins here objected to a sceptics forum, it was done out of fairness. You should be thanking people like babcat, Crank, Magnatrix, Avid and drichardson for you having a voice here at all.

Be a sceptic/skeptic or a cynic or whatever but wow, don't be so negative!
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:08 am PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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exco wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, Dublin, and indeed the rest of Ireland is in Europe, and the correct spelling here is 'sceptic'.

I believe as this alleged invention is Irish we should use 'sceptic'. Had it been an american alleged invention, then I would have suggested adopting 'skeptic'.


So who are these people, then?
http://www.irishskeptics.net/
Rolling Eyes
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:58 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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Magnatrix wrote:
:cry: waaa.. I want a forum for skeptics

:cry: waaa.. I don't like the new forum for skeptics

:lol:

you can please some people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time :roll:


:arrow: plus you assume that whomever moved those posts has any idea of where to put them back


What a very silly post!
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:14 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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exco wrote:

What a very silly post!



Be careful what you say, you might get banned!
Lady Magnatrix has an incinerating sense of humor.


(just to be sure: this is not ment to be taken too serious, so don't ban us, and i hate to use these stupid emoticons)
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Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:07 pm PostPost subject:
exco
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Nobody wanted a forum for sckeptics in the first place. It, too, is a very silly idea for the reasons I've given above.

Not that it matters much, few post here, and few read it anyway.
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Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:00 pm PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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Read the first post in this thread..
Ping wanted a forum for skeptics

chill out Very Happy
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Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:06 am PostPost subject:
exco
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Chilled already, as are the other non-posters on this board.

Good to know you're prepared to answer the request of a single poster without finding out whether anyone else wants it too, though.
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Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:18 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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exco wrote:
Chilled already, as are the other non-posters on this board.

Good to know you're prepared to answer the request of a single poster without finding out whether anyone else wants it too, though.


Excon, to be honest, I did't care too much either of having the request answered. I just was interested to see if there was any reaction at all, regarding this forum is trying to recover from a deep coma. At the time of the request I represented 50% of the users and nobody complained it.
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Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm PostPost subject:
alsetalokin
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Golly, folks, my sceptacles are getting all fogged up from so much chill. Can't we get back to arguing about something serious, like "K" versus "C"?

Just for the record here (since nobody seems to read or respond to my other posts): I am a skeptic with a "K", but I forgive the "C"ers and will defend their right to spell things however they want, as long as they are polite about it--but I don't think I am quite as cynical as Ping. Even though I have been wasting a lot of time (15 percent of my life, at this point) being confronted with error, poor experimental design, and even conscious fraud, but nary a free energy device or antigravity machine anywhere in the mix. Still looking, "still crazy after all these years".

I like this board and this thread because things are getting very silly on the Steorn forum, what with Leading Out bogus overbalanced wheels, oodles of Gaby's inventions which only he can get working, "gamma atmospheres", rude language, banana-banning, mercury-torus-antigravity machines, and etc., but never a functioning Steorn Orbo.

I just hope we can keep things civil, even while mocking what we disbelieve.

After all, just maybe (p<0.0000000000001) we skeptiks are wrong and Steorn are right.
But I'm not holding my breath.

Now, seriously, is the accepted plural of "forum" to be "fora" or "forums"?
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Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:04 am PostPost subject:
Magnatrix
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I prefer "forums" to "fora"... fora looks like a typo ( ha ha Razz )
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