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What will the demo prove?

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Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:56 pm PostPost subject: What will the demo prove?
couldbe
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Steorn will probably demo a spinny thing that lifts weights and spins and spins for hours, days.

But it won't prove anything by itself, and nobody with any sense will completely believe that Steorn has OU based on any demo.

But it will give a lot of encouragement for people to replicate it, and if they can, then everything is copacetic; if nobody can, it will be like Al's whipmag, but even worse.

I think the replications will be made, because Steorn will be sure to have its ducks in a row - enough detailed information will be made available so that anybody with the tools and expertise can make an orbo.

And if the demo is impressive, it won't be just backyard tinkerers who will be trying to replicate it, it will be every corporation in the world.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:53 pm PostPost subject:
maryyugo
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Total nonsense.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:08 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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Fully agree with Mary.

A spinning disk would prove only one thing: Steorn upgraded from delusion to fraud.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:08 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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And couldbe is a plant.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:18 pm PostPost subject:
couldbe
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Ping1400 wrote:
And couldbe is a plant.


Is it in the rose family?
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:48 pm PostPost subject:
couldbe
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maryyugo wrote:
Total nonsense.


People like you seem to me to be simplistic. It's like you have a little checklist: No spinny thing shown so far - check; jury says no evidence of OU - check; kinetica fiasco - check; Sean has fibbed - check.

But you ignore that Steorn is a firm of 15 or 20, not some Joe Newman working in his garage; and that some smart people have invested a lot of money in Steorn; and that the 'three stooges' to use your charming description of three engineers, have said that there is some anomaly they cannot explain; and that no members of the group of 300 have shown up saying Steorn's theoretical basis for the orbo is codswallop, but, instead, a few have said that they have been impressed.

None of that proves anything, but if you don't think simplistically, it ought to be enough to make you wonder a bit about whether or not you should dismiss Steorn as fools or conmen.

And if you do that, you might ask yourself why Sean has painted himself into a corner if he doesn't have what he says he has?

If he doesn't show up with a spinny thing that just keeps on spinning and spinning, but does another 'the bearings broke' or says that what he meant by a demo was that he planned a nice flash presentation - if he shows anything except the spinny thing, it would turn not only me into a scornful skeptic, but it would turn Babcat into one.

The ridicule would be so great, Steorn would melt down overnight. The lawsuits from investors would make a pile as high as a barrister's eye. Higher.

He either has what he says he has or he's out of business and into lawyer hell.

I think he has what he says he has - a spinny thing that just keeps on going. You may differ, but at this point, in my opinion, a belief in the spinny thing is not total nonsense.


Last edited by couldbe on Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:50 pm PostPost subject:
RunningBare
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What the demo will prove is a particular Steorn consistency, there will be a lot of unanswered questions, the believers will kneel at the Steorn alter and be appeased for another year.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:40 pm PostPost subject:
Knuckles O'Toole
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couldbe wrote:
maryyugo wrote:
Total nonsense.


People like you seem to me to be simplistic.


Actually it is believing without proof that is simplistic. To not do so requires critical thinking skills and a complete absence of belief.

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It's like you have a little checklist: No spinny thing shown so far - check; jury says no evidence of OU - check; kinetica fiasco - check; Sean has fibbed - check.


These are facts. So if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck it's a horse, right?

Quote:
But you ignore that Steorn is a firm of 15 or 20, not some Joe Newman working in his garage; and that some smart people have invested a lot of money in Steorn; and that the 'three stooges' to use your charming description of three engineers, have said that there is some anomaly they cannot explain; and that no members of the group of 300 have shown up saying Steorn's theoretical basis for the orbo is codswallop, but, instead, a few have said that they have been impressed.


The NDA prevents people from speaking candidly. Investors in past illegitimate schemes have been known to keep quite out of embarrassment. And an "anomaly" is not the same thing as always proven to work. Enron was a big company too with lots of skilled people with smarts and look what happened to them. And they took down Arthur Anderson accounting firm with them. One of the oldest and most trusted consulting firms in the business.

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None of that proves anything, but if you don't think simplistically, it ought to be enough to make you wonder a bit about whether or not you should dismiss Steorn as fools or conmen.


But it shouldn't make you jump to the conclusion that they are what they say they are either.

Quote:

And if you do that, you might ask yourself why Sean has painted himself into a corner if he doesn't have what he says he has?


Sean could be a very good manipulator or sociopath for all I know. He may feel he is smarter than anybody else and no one will figure it out. Bernie Madoff did.

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If he doesn't show up with a spinny thing that just keeps on spinning and spinning, but does another 'the bearings broke' or says that what he meant by a demo was that he planned a nice flash presentation - if he shows anything except the spinny thing, it would turn not only me into a scornful skeptic, but it would turn Babcat into one.


You will find that even if he doesn't do that there will be those who refuse to not believe and make allowances. It is their nature.

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The ridicule would be so great, Steorn would melt down overnight. The lawsuits from investors would make a pile as high as a barrister's eye. Higher.


If you did some research on past swindles you will find amazingly that many investors do not sue for various personal reasons. Some realize the whole thing is speculative and can afford to lose a few bucks. Others may not want the bad publicity as people will start scrutinizing other investments they have made. Or they are just plain embarrassed.

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He either has what he says he has or he's out of business and into lawyer hell.


Perhaps but if you once again study the history of these things you will find that many have gone on for years if not decades.

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I think he has what he says he has - a spinny thing that just keeps on going. You may differ, but at this point, in my opinion, a belief in the spinny thing is not total nonsense.


Without proof belief is a leap of faith and nonsense. Either you know or you don't and you don't know. Science is not faith based.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:43 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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Where and when did a Steorn official tell you there is going to be a demonstration of a spinning thingy, soon? As far as I can recollect, they are just moving into the 'next phase' of the great implementation plan, like upgrading the 'less than 300', into 'less than 1000' or something like that. No demo. No spinning disks. Only spinning truth.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:59 pm PostPost subject:
couldbe
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Ping1400 wrote:
Where and when did a Steorn official tell you there is going to be a demonstration of a spinning thingy, soon? As far as I can recollect, they are just moving into the 'next phase' of the great implementation plan, like upgrading the 'less than 300', into 'less than 1000' or something like that. No demo. No spinning disks. Only spinning truth.


No, Sean was explicit, even if it was with a one-word answer of 'yup', when asked, during his recent appearance on the forum, if there would be a self-powered OU gizmo - I forget the exact question - but that was the gist of it.

I *think* he also stated elsewhere recently that the demo would be of an OU gizmo.

Cripes, they plan on streaming video. Would they do that for a flash presentation?
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:18 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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Forget the plant remark.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:18 pm PostPost subject:
Knuckles O'Toole
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couldbe wrote:


Cripes, they plan on streaming video. Would they do that for a flash presentation?


We are talking about the company that would spend over a $100K to acquire a hand picked jury of reputable scientists and jerk them around for two and a half years without showing them the spinny thing they say they have and have always had? Probably the same company that would stream a Flash presentation or some other less than satisfactory proof.

Steorn has nothing except blarney.
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Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:22 pm PostPost subject:
RunningBare
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Knuckles O'Toole wrote:


Steorn has nothing except blarney.


I've all but given up saying this, they do not want to know, this is no longer about proof, this is about blind faith, the only thing these believers have left, and they will continue to accept the word of the lord Steorm right up until they are crucified...in a court of law.
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:50 pm PostPost subject:
couldbe
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RunningBare wrote:


I've all but given up saying this, they do not want to know, this is no longer about proof, this is about blind faith, the only thing these believers have left, and they will continue to accept the word of the lord Steorm right up until they are crucified...in a court of law.


If they don't demo a self-powered perpetually spinning gizmo, then there can be only one conclusion: Steorn is doing a long-term study for Oxford or Cambridge or some such place, getting information on how belief in OU changes with different stimuli.

Steorn is really running a mundane business, maybe web design, under another name. They were approached by a university to do the study using their web site. As it's a bit of extra income, they figured 'why not?'

There's plenty of information in the forum about skeptics, true believers, and so on; nobody has to be contacted, the forum inmates blather all day long about how they are affected by what Steorn does. There is a goldmine, or a lead mine, of information about the inmates' psyches.

So the Kinetica demo, for example, was a test to see how strong the faith was of the true believers.

The investigators patrolled the forum to see what the reactions were.

No doubt, some forum members are agents of the investigation, planting loaded questions and so on.

McCarthy probably banned a bunch of skeptics on instruction from the investigators, who wanted to see how their absence would affect the remaining people.

The failure of the demo will be an extreme test of the true believers.

I don't expect a failure as crude as melted bearings: maybe they will have the orbo connected to a set of large batteries, explaining that the orbo's output, through a generator, is lighting lights while charging the batteries - something like the tws or whatever it is that is on peswiki.com.

It will be something that reeks of phoniness but with just enough uncertainty about it to keep a hold on the truest believers.

After a month or so of checking the forum to complete the investigation, the investigators will ring down the curtain; McCarthy will thank everyone for his participation, albeit unwitting, and the forum will disappear.

But I don't expect that to happen - I think they really have what they say.
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:15 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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So you are a plant!
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:35 pm PostPost subject:
couldbe
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Ping1400 wrote:
So you are a plant!


You are the plant. Why else would you have 500 IDs?
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:10 pm PostPost subject:
Harvey
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Actually the absence of hardline skeptics will test the 'gang' mentality associated with those skeptics left behind. There are many possible outcomes, but the results test to see what plays out to be the strongest. Will a new skeptic rise up to be the Don of the gang? Will dissension arise withing the gang causing it to disband? Will the gang follow the leaders to a new location where they can organize systematic attacks from afar? You see, this tests the skeptics - not the believers, the latter will not be swayed in the least by anything the skeptics throw at them. They are only affected by truth.

Cool
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:55 am PostPost subject:
Trim
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Reports of my death are hopefully somewhat premature. I have simply been banned for some unknown reason. As I am not a Cynic or a believer but an opened minded fence sitter I find it puzzling. I wish they would be polite enough to tell what dreaded crime the banned have supposed to have committed.
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:07 am PostPost subject:
couldbe
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I think Sean is just having some fun as he shuts down the forum prior to the launch.

Eventually everyone but him will be banned; all threads except 'last poster wins' will disappear; he'll make the last post in the 'last poster wins' thread announcing the closing of the forum, and, just as important, that he is the winner; and a few hours later the forum will disappear.

The next day will be the launch. All the orbo news will be posted at the appropriate place on the Steorn website, but with the forum gone there won't be any forum comments that might send Orbo buyers confusing messages.

After all, with billions of $ on the line, the forum fun and games have to be ended.
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:54 pm PostPost subject:
overconfident
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Trim wrote:
Reports of my death are hopefully somewhat premature. I have simply been banned for some unknown reason. As I am not a Cynic or a believer but an opened minded fence sitter I find it puzzling. I wish they would be polite enough to tell what dreaded crime the banned have supposed to have committed.


I see myself much the same way. Apparently Sean doesn't share the same views.

Oh well.
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:09 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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couldbe wrote:
I think Sean is just having some fun as he shuts down the forum prior to the launch.


Almost right.
Just that I would suggest to replace the word 'launch' with 'bankruptcy'.
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:27 pm PostPost subject:
Ping1400
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BTW, when was the term 'validation day' replaced by 'launch day'?
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Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:56 am PostPost subject:
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Back in February the Steon website came up with some rubbish about launching the "first of the four technology streams associated with the development of Orbo technology". Of course at this time the believers were still rattling on about 'validation day'.

Fast forward to a negative jury verdict, and in the next interview Sean is on about launching before the end of the year. He also talks about the mysterious P-One, and he pays a couple of cranky visits to the Steorn forum, saying that the jury doesn't matter because they will launch before the end of the year, and demo Orbo technology, and release the P-One. It is still unclear whether by "launch" he means that he will merely be selling access to the E-Learning Modules to the general public, or whether he means that a tangible product (the P-One) will for sale.

The believers took this in their stride, and simply stopped going on endlessly about how they would be vindicated come 'validation day', and are now instead insisting that all the rest of us will have egg on our faces come 'launch day'.

After the 'failure to launch day' when Steorn's big reveal turns out to be nothing more than paid access to the E-Learning modules, with the promise of both demos and the P-One to follow SOON (i.e. not now i.e. never), the believers will once again change tack, and probably start waffling on about 'demo day', and after that 'P-One reveal day', and after that 'Production day' until eventually they get to 'the investors money is all gone day'.
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